Geri Halliwell-Horner — a.k.a. Ginger Spice — brings girl power to a new generation with YA series
Best known as Ginger Spice, one-fifth of the '90s pop phenomenon the Spice Girls, Halliwell-Horner now writes for the age group that once memorized her lyrics. She enthusiastically spoke with The Times about her new young-adult novel, 'Rosie Frost: Ice on Fire,' the second in a trilogy that began with the 2023 bestseller 'Rosie Frost and the Falcon Queen.'
However, Halliwell-Horner is not new to writing; she published a memoir, 'If Only,' in 1999, shortly after her departure from the Spice Girls, as well as a series of children's books, 'Ugenia Lavender,' in 2008. The best piece of writing advice she received as she embarked on this phase of her career? 'Start again. Don't age 'Ugenia Lavender' up.' So I did. ['Rosie Frost' is a] much deeper, fleshed-out story.'
'I love the gooey bits,' Halliwell-Horner continues as she picks her favorite scene from the book, a kiss between Rosie and her love interest. 'I so enjoyed writing that,' she says giddily, as if we're two teenagers around Rosie's age gossiping at a sleepover.
Halliwell-Horner imbues Rosie with some of those attributes that made young girls and women (and, let's face it, a lot of men) fall in love with her and her fellow Spice Girls — 'Baby Spice' Emma Bunton, 'Scary Spice' Melanie Brown, 'Sporty Spice' Melanie Chisholm and 'Posh Spice' Victoria Beckham — almost three decades ago.
Though it's been eight years since Halliwell-Horner released a pop single, she has penned original music for both 'Rosie Frost' books so far, including the latest song, 'Older Now,' which is accessible via QR code in 'Ice on Fire.'
She doesn't shy away from the thornier feelings of adolescence, such as grief, isolation and revenge, the latter of which is the driving force of this installment as Rosie seeks to avenge her mother's murder.
'It's much darker and it's real,' says Halliwell-Horner.
This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.
What draws you to writing, and writing for children in particular?
I've always loved writing. I've always been a massive reader. I studied theater — Stanislavski — and English literature before I embarked on my music career, which was still being creative with words. When you write a song, you're finding the words that maybe someone [else] can't find in themselves. It's storytelling, but in a shot of espresso, whereas writing a novel is a feast.
My ambition is always to connect with everyone. These novels are YA, but my hope is that [readers] of whatever age connect [with the story]. Older adults like YA as well because it has depth for the curious mind to unpack a little bit, or if you're a nerdy, curious person like me, it ticks that box too.
You have to do lots of research and I really like doing that. Before I even hit the page, I found myself researching fusion energy because the backdrop of [the 'Rosie Frost' novels] is a little bit of science, but I want to get it right and turn the volume up on it. I found myself learning about physics and black holes, just to give it authenticity.
What was that research process like, specifically researching the British royal family and deciding what parts to include in Rosie's lore?
I had read historical novels before, like 'The Other Boleyn Girl' by Philippa Gregory, which is a really great entry point into history but in a light way. I've always loved 'The Tudors,' which is full of drama. [The Tudor dynasty] was a really pivotal moment in history. I also thought we need a female character who reflects who we are today. A protagonist who is unairbrushed and vulnerable. Rosie Frost finds herself there 500 years later after she's been orphaned. She's had to find the courage she never knew she had. I identify with that: have courage to take the chance on [what] you fear most. Rosie had to do that. I did that in [writing this series]. Now, in Book 2, she's hitting 14 — the age of power. She's really having to find her own identity. Through her own experience and confidence, you start to find your own inner power and trust that.
Are there any plans for a third book?
That's what I'm working on now. I don't want to give the game away. I always knew it was going to be a trilogy. I always knew what the ending would be. I'm still deciding who's going to die. And someone will.
There's a throughline between the girl power you espoused as part of the Spice Girls and now in writing this story about a powerful young girl for a whole new generation. Was that something you were conscious of when writing Rosie Frost?
I think you're absolutely correct. Whatever I do, there's always that genesis. My ambition is to give others a feeling of empowerment, hope and inspiration through storytelling, whether that's through song or through [books].
She's going through very human struggles, whether that's bullying — you can be bullied at any age — or grieving. But wrap it in chocolate and curiosity, history and danger. 'Ice on Fire' is dark and delicious at the same time.
You recently teased a Spice Girls reunion. Is there anything else you can tell us?
I am so grateful for each and every person who has supported what the Spice Girls achieved. But when there is something to be announced it will come from [us as] a whole.
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Summer Taste Test Extravaganza!
ROSIE: If you haven't scraped the cookie with your teeth off your thumb and your finger — MARGUERITE: You haven't lived. ROSIE: Did you have … did summer even happen? MARGUERITE: Exactly. CHRISTINE: I'm Christine Cyr Clisset. CAIRA: I'm Caira Blackwell. ROSIE: I'm Rosie Guerin, and you're listening to The Wirecutter Show . CAIRA: This episode is called: 'Summer Taste Test Extravaganza!' ROSIE: Hey, guys. CAIRA: Hey there. CHRISTINE: Hi. ROSIE: So today we're doing something a little different. We're headed on a field trip. CHRISTINE: I have been waiting for this moment. ROSIE: I know, I know. Today is the day. We're headed to Wirecutter's test kitchen to do some summer taste testing. CAIRA: I love my job. CHRISTINE: That's right. Wirecutter does some epic taste tests. We have really fun reviews to things like ramen and barbecue sauce and all sorts of stuff. And our team, not surprisingly, does crazy work on these reviews. They go out, and they look at everything that's out there, and they figure out what to taste, and it's really … it's pretty fun. And so, this episode, we're going to taste three summer-classic foods that they've reviewed. Summer staples, if you will. So we're going to try out ketchup, potato chips, and ice cream sandwiches. CAIRA: Fun! CHRISTINE: Sounds like a really weird meal, but we'll each be tasting one of these foods. CAIRA: Right, we played rock, paper, scissors to figure out who's doing what. So we're going to talk to some experts today on our kitchen team about how they actually whittled down from all these options to make their top picks, because there really are so many options. And then, the fun part, we're going to do some taste testing ourselves. Right now, we're going to take a quick break, and then first up is Christine with Antara Sinha, tasting ketchup. See you in a sec. CHRISTINE: Welcome back to the show. We are here in the test kitchen at Wirecutter with Antara Sinha, an associate writer on our kitchen team. And Antara, I'm really pumped to be here with you today. We are going to be talking ketchup, which is something that you know a lot about, because you wrote an entire guide to ketchup. Welcome to the show. ANTARA: Thank you. CHRISTINE: What did you do for this guide? How many ketchups did you taste, and what were you kind of looking for in the ketchups? ANTARA: Right. So there's actually a whole wide world of ketchup out there, more than we even expected in the research process. And so for this guide, we really decided to narrow it down to classic ketchup, nothing flavored or artisanal or local, and specifically to ketchups you can get at grocery stores around the country. So we narrowed it down to 13 ketchups. CHRISTINE: 13. That seems like a lot still. ANTARA: It was quite a bit. And I think the fun part of this guide is that we also had some kids taste, and they didn't taste 13, but they did taste kind of the big four supermarket ketchups. CHRISTINE: I was actually at that tasting. We had a Bring Your Kid to Work Day, and it was really fun, and I was peeking in at all these toddlers to teenagers tasting ketchup, and they were kind of tough, I think. They have an elevated palate, that little group of kids. ANTARA: An elevated palate, but also the best feedback. CHRISTINE: Yeah. ANTARA: Because I was seeing notes that was like, 'This kid didn't eat any ketchup but licked all the salt off the fries.' And that was a note that I got for whatever brand, but it was … yeah, it was fun to read through the notes for that. CHRISTINE: Okay, so I want to know: What makes a good ketchup? What were you looking for? ANTARA: Most of our taste tests really break down to the fundamentals, flavor and texture. And so for a ketchup, it really comes down to that balance of … we want it to be acidic, tart, sweet, punchy, a really pronounced tomato flavor, but not overly stewy or tinny or preserved. And I think we eat with our eyes first, so texture-wise, we wanted it to be smooth, homogenous, glossy. Not so pulpy, not so much of the water separating from the ketchup itself. We also really tested for how it clings to fries, so that's important. We did a little dip test. CHRISTINE: Yeah. Now, can you tell me: Is ketchup something that we as Americans are into? Are there people in other countries that really like ketchup? Is it an American condiment, basically? ANTARA: It's … ketchup, the way that we eat it in the US, is a very profoundly American product. For this guide, I interviewed professor Amy Bentley, who is a professor of food studies at NYU and is the de facto ketchup expert in the country. CHRISTINE: Does she have that on her bio? ANTARA: Not specifically, but we really got into it, because she really studied not just the history but also just kind of the political implications of ketchup, which I don't know if we have time to get into. CHRISTINE: Oh my gosh. Political. I'm all here. Let's hear about it. Yeah. ANTARA: She really, I don't want to flatten her work, but she did a lot of research about how during the Reagan administration, ketchup was being used as a tool in school lunches, as, like, ketchup should count as a vegetable — CHRISTINE: As a vegetable. I remember that. I was in school in the '80s, so I do remember this. ANTARA: Yes, exactly. But we got into the history, which is really fascinating, which is that ketchup just used to mean 'preserved fish product.' The origins are in China, and just by waves of colonization, through trade, it made its way to England, where it became kind of like 'any preserved product,' period. Tomatoes were introduced much later. CHRISTINE: What is the most surprising thing beyond that you learned? I mean, that feels like maybe the most surprising thing? ANTARA: I think the most surprising thing for me was, I was fascinated about how much we were all kind of indoctrinated by Heinz. My editor and I went into this really thinking we would find some sort of unsung condiment-aisle hero, and I think we all have pretty discerning palates, but despite the blind taste test, we all kind of zeroed in on Heinz as our favorite. CHRISTINE: Yeah. ANTARA: And the same thing with the kids too, where the taste test was for kids between 2 and 12, and they were using words like, 'This one tastes the most normal or the most regular.' And so I think Heinz ketchup has become sort of the way that Kleenex is tissue, the way that Tupperware is food storage. Heinz ketchup on our palate is ketchup, and everything else is a deviation from that. CHRISTINE: I feel like I am a 2-year-old. I am all about Heinz, so I'm excited to try these ketchups that we're about to try. I do have to ask you, though: What is your opinion of artisanal ketchups? Do you have a pro/con? ANTARA: I am pro with the caveat that I want to be warned that it's not Heinz ketchup. I went to a really lovely cocktail bar with some friends, and we got fries with ketchup, and I looked to my friends, I'm like, 'I think something's wrong with this ketchup.' And we found out after that it's, like, a barrel-aged whiskey ketchup. And I'm like, 'That makes sense with that context.' CHRISTINE: All right. So now we're going to taste ketchups. Antara, you have set out this beautiful plate of three different ketchups in front of me. I can see the back of the bottles, but I cannot actually see the front. ANTARA: All three of these are picks. One of these is our organic pick, and then we have one that we like just because it's a little bit different from our standard classic ketchup, and then we have a very classic ketchup. That's our top pick. CHRISTINE: Okay, great. I think I know which one is the Heinz just by the glossiness of it. ANTARA: Yes. CHRISTINE: That Heinz has this classic fake-food gloss to it because … I don't know, what is it? What's in it? ANTARA: They take their viscosity very seriously. They have a special tool to make sure that viscosity is homogeneous globally. CHRISTINE: And is that what makes it so glossy and shiny? ANTARA: Yeah, I think it's also just how they process the tomatoes. It's really finely made into this paste that … you will notice chunks and flecks of a whole tomato in some of the other picks that we have. But, yeah, I think just really working the tomato paste. CHRISTINE: Okay, all right. Great. So where should I start? ANTARA: Let's start with this one over here. CHRISTINE: All right, I am dipping some delicious crinkle fries that you just made in a toaster oven right behind me, which is awesome, into this ketchup. This one looks a little chunkier and a little, like, it's very deeply red. The color is very pretty. So I'm going to try it. ANTARA: Yeah. CHRISTINE: Oh, wow. It's good. It is very tomatoey, and it's got a very vinegary taste to it. I'm really tasting the vinegar. ANTARA: Some of the tasting notes we got for this one was that we're getting citrusy notes happening in there, as well. CHRISTINE: Yeah, I can see that. ANTARA: Yeah. CHRISTINE: Yeah, that one. I like that. I wouldn't be mad if I had that on a hamburger. ANTARA: Yeah, I think this is probably closest to maybe some sort of artisanal or homemade dupe — CHRISTINE: Yes. ANTARA: — from our picks. CHRISTINE: Yes, okay. All right. ANTARA: Let's try number two. CHRISTINE: Let's try number two. CHRISTINE: This one looks a little bit more like tomato paste to me. It's a little bit, like, a darker red and not as glossy-looking. All right, let's try it. That one is sweeter. ANTARA: We got a lot of notes, because some people said brown sugar, some people were getting even warm spices, some clove, some nutmeg, some cinnamon in this one. We really enjoyed this one just because it felt, like, not … I don't want to use the word 'elevated,' but something extra, beyond your standard classic ketchup. And some people said it would be great to make a barbecue sauce, if you want to baste over meatloaf. CHRISTINE: Yeah, yeah. All right, I like that. All right, I'm trying the glossiest. I think I know which one this is. It's very, very glossy, and it's the most sort of fire-engine red of all of them. I think this is your classic Heinz, I'm going to take a wild guess. It is definitely the least exciting of all three of these. ANTARA: The most standard. CHRISTINE: I'm a little bit surprised. I thought I would like this one the most. It's kind of a little bit more muted in all the flavors. The other two felt like they were really picking a lane much stronger, and this one feels like a little bit less everything, a little bit … I mean, the texture is great. It's really, really smooth, and I see why 2-year-olds like it. ANTARA: Yeah, for sure. Yeah, so this is obviously Heinz. CHRISTINE: The third one is Heinz. ANTARA: The first one you tasted was Trader Joe's organic. CHRISTINE: Oh, wow. ANTARA: And the second one that you tasted was Whole Foods 365. ANTARA: We didn't specifically taste for different categories of sugars, but Trader Joe's is also our pick that uses cane sugar instead of high-fructose corn syrup or corn syrup in general. So for folks who are looking for that, that's a great, tasty alternative. And then Heinz, it was just a winner all around. Kids loved it. We loved it. CHRISTINE: Kids love it. You're not going to go wrong. You wouldn't go wrong with any of these, I think. ANTARA: I think they're all great, but I'm kind of biased, since I wrote the guide. CHRISTINE: Going into this tasting, I really thought that I was going to pick Heinz. But I have to tell you that after tasting these three, I think I'm going with the Trader Joe's. I actually felt like that was a much more complex, interesting flavor than the Heinz, and the Whole Foods one was a little too sweet for me. I liked the very powerful tomato flavor of the Trader Joe's. So I think that's my pick. ANTARA: Yeah, that was definitely the most punchiest of our picks, for sure. CHRISTINE: Antara, thank you so much. ANTARA: Thanks for having me. This was so much fun. CHRISTINE: This was really fun. CHRISTINE: When we're back, we are going to have Caira on the show with another kitchen writer, Rachel Wharton, tasting chips. We'll be right back. CAIRA: Welcome back. We're here in the test kitchen, and I'm here with Rachel Wharton, who is a senior staff writer on the appliance team. Hi, Rachel. RACHEL: Hello, how are you? Thanks so much for having me. CAIRA: Of course. So Rachel basically tests all large appliances that have to do with food and cooking. I'm really excited to talk to you, because you actually have a master's degree in food studies, right? RACHEL: Yep, the academic study of food. CAIRA: So today, we are going to be talking about chips. Rachel, you wrote the guide on chips, and let me tell you — RACHEL: I've lived the guide on chips. CAIRA: You really did your homework, right? RACHEL: Yes. CAIRA: So can you tell me about the testing process and what you were looking for? RACHEL: Well, basically I had this workout routine where I moved giant boxes of chips every day for, like, six months. CAIRA: Nice. RACHEL: But I digress. So actually, I think step one, man, we all had it in our hearts that we were just, like, 'Oh, this little chip company from a potato part of the world is going to win.' So what we really wanted to do was our due diligence, to try to call in as many small brands as possible, the ones that anyone could order anywhere. So we spent a lot of time — there's a lot of potato parts of the country, and we tried to call a lot of them in. Step two was really tasting them, obviously. So we do it blind, put the chips in a bowl. We have people fill out their Wirecutter spreadsheets thinking about texture, color, the way they look, salt balance. But number one, the first thing we did was, we knocked out anything that had defects. CAIRA: Okay. RACHEL: So we talked a little bit up front about what a defect might be, which is a rancid oil, which … if you know what rancidity tastes like, you can call it out immediately. And if you don't, it kind of just makes your mouth feel weird, and there's kind of off, sometimes bright flavors. There's the taste of soil, if there's too many eyes or green pieces of the potato. So the first step was, we got rid of all the defects. And then, we tasted them again, blind again, and again people filled out what they thought about texture and salt flavor and balance, and roastiness and toastiness, and then we just talked through all those results to try to weed out any subjectivity, to see where it's salt preference as opposed to 'This is a little bit over-fried.' And then we whittled them down to our favorites. And amazingly, the two top picks, the kettle pick and the plain potato chip pick, were solid winners across the board, which … I love it when that happens. That always makes me feel like we're doing something right when everyone's like, 'This is the one.' CAIRA: Can you tell me a little bit about why you chose to test plain potato chips? RACHEL: Because you got to lay a foundation. You got to lay a base so that we can taste all those magical flavors later on. CAIRA: So this is the control, and hopefully you're going to branch it. RACHEL: I hope so. I mean, we tasted plain because it's very hard. The job of comparing flavors, I mean — do we just pick the best-flavor potato chip of all? That's a hard decision. And so it's easier to compare plain to plain to plain. But I'm really glad we did, because I definitely rediscovered the magic of the plain potato chip. CAIRA: And how many chips total did you test? RACHEL: Oh, I think 70. I think we ate 70, probably, like, 30 more came late. CAIRA: And then your final contenders, how many picks did you have in your guide? RACHEL: Good question. I think it was, like, seven. I actually don't remember, because it was so many. Because there's potato chips, fried and lard, and then there's, like, three runner-up kettles. We have a lot of options. CAIRA: Yeah. I want to learn: What is the most surprising thing that you found during this testing, without revealing anything about the picks that we might be tasting today? RACHEL: Well, I was surprised, I think … kettle chips, there are a lot of defects in kettle chips, which are fried in different ways than plain chips. The oil temperature changes, and they're often small-batch, and we found a lot of defects in that category, which kind of surprised me, because it's kind of like the beloved hot potato chip category right now. And we also found a ton of defects in international brands, which are always more expensive, and we thought that they would taste better because they were Spanish olive oil. We found there's a lot of defects there, and there's also a lot of defects in the smaller brands, which may be because they are meant to be eaten there, where they're made, and not to be shipped to a New York City kitchen and sit around on the floor in a box for two weeks before we taste them. So we were surprised that the things we thought would be the most beloved actually turned out to be the least good. CAIRA: Okay, my last question for you before we start tasting: What is your perfect setting for eating a potato chip? RACHEL: There are two favorites. One is actually on a road trip, and you find a local bag of potato chips, and you have it in the car, and it's open next to you while you're driving. CAIRA: That's good. RACHEL: And then, you give one or two to your dog in the backseat, because they have to enjoy it too. That's number one. And the second one is with a hoagie from Philadelphia, because Philadelphia makes the best sandwiches in the world. So chips with the sandwich, maybe in the sandwich, maybe it's crushed up on a hot dog. So those are my two faves. CAIRA: Oh, good choices. Okay, Rachel, so I see we've got three bowls, and we've got three bags, but each bag does not match with the bowl. So which one should I taste first? RACHEL: You should taste the one that's closest to you first. CAIRA: Okay. It just looks like a chip to me. I'm not really a chip expert, so I'll just taste it. RACHEL: Look at that, there's nice and whole — CAIRA: That's right. It's got a little — RACHEL: Thin, golden. CAIRA: Yeah. RACHEL: Not too greasy. Not too much sheen. CAIRA: Yeah, and it's got little bubbles in it. RACHEL: You should smell it. CAIRA: Smells like a potato. RACHEL: Excellent. That's an excellent sign. CAIRA: They're so cute. Look at those potatoes. It's definitely not kettle-fried, because it's still soft-ish and crispy. It doesn't have much salt to it. It's very — RACHEL: Perfectly balanced. Roasty, a little roasty, a little toasty, a little salty. CAIRA: Yeah, this is, like, a classic. RACHEL: Thin. CAIRA: I can imagine getting a bag of these at summer camp and not being mad at it. RACHEL: Yes. CAIRA: Which one should I try next? RACHEL: Try these right here. They're a little bit paler. CAIRA: Definitely thinner. RACHEL: You can see some brownie spots. CAIRA: Yeah, but these don't have the air bubbles like the first chip. RACHEL: Yeah. And there's maybe a little bit more sheen, right? You see a little transparency there? CAIRA: Yeah, you can look right through it, and it doesn't have much of a smell. This one actually isn't my favorite. RACHEL: Do you like that one better? CAIRA: No. This just tastes like potato, like a real potato, but a potato. RACHEL: Okay. Very simple. CAIRA: So this is the last one. I can tell that it's kettle-cooked. RACHEL: Yes. They're, like, wrinkly and roller coaster-y and dark brown, and all curled up on each other. CAIRA: Roller coaster. Yeah, this one's going to take me for a ride. Yeah. RACHEL: Amazing. CAIRA: Listen to that crunch. This one's … she is a ride. RACHEL: Yeah. CAIRA: It's a lot to get through. Definitely more oil-heavy, that fried taste. It's got a little bit more salt, a little bit more flavor. RACHEL: Yeah. Fully flavored chip, for sure. CAIRA: Yeah. I don't know which one I like the best. RACHEL: Really? Really? CAIRA: Yeah. Honestly, the kettle chip is just so different from these two. RACHEL: Yeah, that makes sense. The ones you like the most are our top pick. And, oh man, they're from Amazon Fresh. We tasted them blind. We didn't know who was going to win. CAIRA: Really? RACHEL: But yeah, our top pick's Amazon Fresh potato chips. They're obviously hiring the best potato chip maker in the country so that they can have thousands and millions of these chips shipped out everywhere, anywhere, all at once, and they taste really good. CAIRA: They're really good. RACHEL: We were all really surprised. CAIRA: So, what are these? RACHEL: Those are Clancy's, those are from Aldi. And these are the ones that … actually, our salt lovers on the panel really like these. They're a little bit saltier. I remember someone saying they have an oil flavor, like McDonald's in a good way, which is actually the highest praise in any tasting panel ever, typically. Those are really good too. CAIRA: Okay. RACHEL: And a little toastier. CAIRA: Yeah. RACHEL: And then, the last is our Deep River kettle chip pick, which everybody loved. And kettle chips, there was not a lot of love. So it was really nice to find one that everybody liked. CAIRA: I mean, I do like it. It's a good kettle chip. Thank you so much for being here, Rachel. RACHEL: Thank you so much for having me. CAIRA: Coming up next, Rosie's going to be in the kitchen with Marguerite Preston to talk about probably the most summery of all snacks, ice cream sandwiches. ROSIE: I'm here with Wirecutter's editorial director of home, Marguerite Preston. MARGUERITE: Hello. ROSIE: Hello, nice to see you. MARGUERITE: Nice to be here. ROSIE: Today, we're talking ice cream sandwiches. How did the idea to do a guide on ice cream sandwiches come about? MARGUERITE: So this was actually one of our really early taste tests. This was kind of deep in the pandemic. We were all a little sad. We wanted to do a fun summer set of things. And so, our writer Rachel Cericola pitched us on a taste test of ice cream sandwiches, and we couldn't say no. ROSIE: How did you decide what was going to be included in terms of … there's always a place where you need to start, because you can't test every single ice cream sandwich that's ever been made. So where did you figure out was the place to start? MARGUERITE: So we decided that the sort of obvious place to start was the really classic 'chocolate wafer, vanilla ice cream' ice cream sandwich. ROSIE: Quintessential. MARGUERITE: Yeah. It made it easier to do apples-to-apples comparison rather than, like, well, 'I like coffee ice cream' and 'I like mint chip.' And for the purposes of this, this was just the most straightforward way to do it. ROSIE: But you did test some non-dairy options in addition to the straight classic vanilla ice cream center? MARGUERITE: Yes, that's right. We thought it was important for people who don't want to eat dairy for whatever reason. So we did nine dairy ice cream sandwiches, and then we did three non-dairy. ROSIE: So what were the criteria that you guys were looking at? MARGUERITE: I mean, obviously there's the flavor. ROSIE: Sure. MARGUERITE: There's the flavor of the cookie, and there's the flavor of the ice cream, and for me it's like … the cookie is supposed to taste a little bit like chocolate. It's not a super … none of these are super chocolatey, but it shouldn't taste … some of them legit tasted just like a graham cracker or something, and that to me was not — ROSIE: Blasphemy. MARGUERITE: — not what what we were going for. ROSIE: Yeah, yeah. MARGUERITE: There's also the textural thing. A lot of ice cream sandwiches use kind of a more inexpensive ice cream. It has a lot of air turned into it, it's going to be kind of foamy on the tongue, maybe not taste like much of anything. The better ones, it tastes like vanilla ice cream. It's a nice thick, creamy texture. It has some real vanilla flavor in it. Yeah. And then the textural … there's this sort of textural experience of the whole ice cream sandwich. ROSIE: Oh, I am familiar. MARGUERITE: Yes. ROSIE: Tell me about that. What is it for you guys? MARGUERITE: The cookie's got to be soft. ROSIE: Yeah. MARGUERITE: It's got to have kind of melded with the ice cream a little bit. The nightmare as it all sticks to the wrapper, and you're scraping it off with your teeth. ROSIE: Yeah. You need some stickage. MARGUERITE: Yeah. ROSIE: To know that — MARGUERITE: It should stick to your fingers. ROSIE: Right, exactly. MARGUERITE: Yes. ROSIE: If you haven't scraped the cookie with your teeth off your thumb and your finger — MARGUERITE: You haven't lived. ROSIE: Did you have … did summer even happen? MARGUERITE: Exactly. ROSIE: Let's do this. MARGUERITE: Okay. ROSIE: Bring me the sandwiches. MARGUERITE: Oh, they're in this freezer. ROSIE: Okay. So if I have a Thanksgiving plate, I eat through the thing that I like the least first. MARGUERITE: First? ROSIE: So I'm going — MARGUERITE: You going to start with that? ROSIE: — for the non-dairy, or what I imagine is the non-dairy. Let's taste. Strong vanilla flavor, strong coconut flavor, which is suggesting to me that this is a non-dairy — MARGUERITE: You're right about that. ROSIE: — coconut alternative. Love. I can appreciate and really like this for what it is. But don't give me tofu and tell me that it tastes like chicken. I love tofu. It's not chicken. MARGUERITE: I feel exactly the same way. I like the coconut flavor. It is better than the flavor of soy ice cream. ROSIE: No, I will say, the consistency is nice. The ice cream tastes nice. I don't have any complaints. Okay, so let's go square. Let's go around the horn. MARGUERITE: Okay, square. ROSIE: Okay. Stickage test. Yeah. MARGUERITE: Stuck. Getting sticky. ROSIE: Right off the bat. This is full. This is pushing out the sides, which I kind of like. Oh, that's so good. I don't get a lot of the cookie, because there is a lot of ice cream here, it is jam-packed. I'm just so happy with the stickage, and I really like the taste of this ice cream. To me, this is like that fluffed-up thing that you're talking about. MARGUERITE: Yes, and you're right. I think in the guide, we described this as the cookie is basically a holder for a scoop of ice cream. The cookie doesn't give that much. It also doesn't taste that chocolatey to me. It tastes … this is a little graham cracker–y. ROSIE: There's nothing that's screaming chocolate. Round. Fine stickage. It's fine. MARGUERITE: But nothing special to you? ROSIE: No. MARGUERITE: No. ROSIE: And an aftertaste I don't care for. MARGUERITE: Oh, interesting. ROSIE: The ice cream's okay. MARGUERITE: It's a little more like Oreo to me. ROSIE: This is not it for me. MARGUERITE: Really. ROSIE: This isn't making me that happy. What do you like about this? MARGUERITE: If you let the ice cream melt a little bit, it's very smooth. I think it has a real vanilla flavor. Some of these, I think, are probably using vanillin, which is artificial vanilla, which is a vibe and kind of gets at that nostalgic ice cream sandwich thing. I get chocolate from this cookie. I get Oreo, which I like. ROSIE: Okay. So then, this to me is … what's better than this? It's gorgeous. MARGUERITE: Just a very satisfying shape and weight. ROSIE: Yeah. To me, this looks like a Nestle or a Hood or one of the … a Good Humor. MARGUERITE: If you look closely, you can see the ice cream, though, has this kind of nice ivory color. ROSIE: It does, yeah. MARGUERITE: They might've made this ice cream with a little bit of egg yolk. Does it taste like summer? ROSIE: This is it for me. MARGUERITE: It's the perfect ratio. ROSIE: It's just right. MARGUERITE: Yeah. MARGUERITE: It's solid cookie. ROSIE: It's solid. ROSIE: It's not as sweet as the second one. The square one was very, very sweet. I want to eat this whole thing. Okay. MARGUERITE: Do you want the reveal? ROSIE: Let's start here. What I'm eating? MARGUERITE: Whole Foods 365. ROSIE: Wow. MARGUERITE: This is our top pick. ROSIE: It is the top pick. MARGUERITE: I mean, these taste tests, they're all subjective. We have a handful of picks, but this was kind of, I think, yes, the unanimous favorite. Classic. ROSIE: The most 'what you might grab on an ice cream truck,' what we used to have as kids. MARGUERITE: I think it's a little elevated from what you might grab in the ice cream truck. The ice cream is a little better. ROSIE: Yeah, and the cookie was nice too. It was everything you want and nothing you don't. MARGUERITE: Exactly. ROSIE: What is the second pick here? MARGUERITE: So, our round one is Alden's Organic. ROSIE: Real organic vanilla? MARGUERITE: Yeah. ROSIE: It didn't lean far enough in one direction or another. It did everything fine. MARGUERITE: That's fair, I get that. For me, this would be the one I might buy for myself. ROSIE: Okay, so then what about the square one? What was that that we tasted? MARGUERITE: The square one was FatBoy. ROSIE: Thick and creamy since 1925. MARGUERITE: Yeah, it's, like, an old-school brand. See, this one is not for me, because it's too much ice cream for me. But I do think the flavor … flavor is good. Solid option, especially if you like ice cream. ROSIE: Cool. And then the first one, was I right? So Delicious. Vanilla bean, coconut milk. This, I thought, was actually very, very, very nice. I liked this a lot. MARGUERITE: Yeah, yeah. This was the best of the three non-dairy ones that we tried because of the coconut, I think it tastes most … but we also did the Tofutti Cuties. ROSIE: Okay. MARGUERITE: Classic for a reason. And then, Alden's makes a non-dairy version of this ice cream sandwich. ROSIE: Oh, what is the ice cream there? MARGUERITE: It's a mishmash. It's got some coconut, it's got some other stuff. ROSIE: Got it. MARGUERITE: I think we found that that one tasted the most kind of real vanilla-y to us. Like the dairy version, the non-dairy version was more expensive. ROSIE: Sure, sure, sure. MARGUERITE: You get the four in the box. ROSIE: There we go. I feel pretty heartened that the one I hoped would be the winner was the winner. Thanks, Marguerite. MARGUERITE: Thanks for having me. ROSIE: This was really fun. MARGUERITE: This was great. ROSIE: We're back in the studio. CHRISTINE: Yeah. ROSIE: We are wiser now. CHRISTINE: We are wiser. I know. ROSIE: And fuller. CHRISTINE: That's right. What did you all like? What were your favorites? CAIRA: Ooh, can I go first? CHRISTINE: Yes, please. CAIRA: So I've learned that I have a problem, and it's that I think I eat too much salt. CHRISTINE: Oh. CAIRA: So I tested potato chips, and all of them tasted good but not salty enough for me. CHRISTINE: Oh, interesting. Interesting. CAIRA: Yeah. I think I need to, I don't know, refine my palate. But I was really surprised to find that the Amazon chips were the best out of the bunch that I tasted. CHRISTINE: I just kind of don't want to hear that. CAIRA: Nobody wants to hear it, but it also isn't surprising. Who's making those chips for Amazon? Probably somebody pretty good. CHRISTINE: Yeah. ROSIE: Like Jean-Georges. CHRISTINE: You never know. ROSIE: Fair enough. Christine, how'd you do? CHRISTINE: I was surprised. Going in, I thought I was going to like Heinz, because that's the classic. I know the kids like it. I get kind of grouchy when I go to a restaurant, and there's artisanal ketchup. I just want the Heinz. But I actually, I liked the Trader Joe's, which was really surprising to me. ROSIE: I love the Trader Joe's ketchup. CHRISTINE: I have gotten that Trader Joe's ketchup and been like, 'Oh, we should have Heinz,' and gotten the Heinz. ROSIE: But you're more mature. CHRISTINE: Well, yeah, but it was just much more pronounced, the tomato flavor. It just tasted really good. And the Heinz was not bad, it just kind of tasted a little bit flat. There's a reason why it's a good sort of everyone-likes-it kind of a thing. CAIRA: Trader Joe's also does the organic thing, right? So it doesn't have the high-fructose whatever that Heinz does? CHRISTINE: I think that's probably right. I need to go back and look at the back of the bottle, but I could go back to my fridge and look, because I do have some in there. CAIRA: What about you, Rosie? ROSIE: I am a purist when it comes to ice cream sandwiches, so I actually liked what I thought I would like. However, I was surprised that it came from Whole Foods 365, they're sort of house brand. CAIRA: Another Amazon take. ROSIE: I know, I know. CHRISTINE: Well, and oftentimes these house brands do pretty well in our taste tests. You see Whole Foods pop up, you see Target pop up. ROSIE: Target. Yeah. CHRISTINE: Now we've got Amazon. They're doing something right, yeah. ROSIE: I'll tell you what, that tasted like the summer of yore. It was everything you wanted. The right consistency, the right distribution of ice cream to cookie. CHRISTINE: Was it the right size? ROSIE: It was the perfect size, fit right in your palm. CHRISTINE: Was it rectangle or … ? ROSIE: It was a rectangle. We don't mess around. You don't need to mess with a good thing. I will also say, I liked the So Delicious vegan. CAIRA: Yeah, the coconut cream ice cream? ROSIE: Who knew? CHRISTINE: Oh, I love those. ROSIE: They were really, really nice. CHRISTINE: Yeah. ROSIE: The consistency was nice. The cookie was nice. There was not quite enough ice cream in there pushing out to the sides, like I like. I like it robust. CAIRA: Yeah, yeah, yeah. CHRISTINE: Yes. ROSIE: But all in all, it was close. I really liked those. Shout out to the vegans. CHRISTINE: Yeah. The coconut, it wins. ROSIE: If you want to find out more about Wirecutter's coverage of these summer staples and so many other delicious items, check out the website and check out our video on YouTube, where you can see us sort of getting real scientific testing chips, ketchup, and ice cream sandwiches. CHRISTINE: It's a fun time. ROSIE: We went deep. That's it for us till next week. Thanks for listening. CHRISTINE: Bye. CAIRA: Bye. CHRISTINE: The Wirecutter Show is executive produced by Rosie Guerin and produced by Abigail Keel. Engineering support from Maddy Masiello and Nick Pitman. Today's episode was mixed by Catherine Anderson. Original music by Dan Powell, Marion Lozano, Elisheba Ittoop, and Diane Wong. Wirecutter's deputy publisher is Cliff Levy. Ben Frumin is Wirecutter's editor-in-chief. I'm Christine Cyr Clisset. CAIRA: I'm Caira Blackwell. ROSIE: And I'm Rosie Guerin. CHRISTINE: Thanks for listening. ROSIE: That's it for us.
Los Angeles Times
21 hours ago
- Los Angeles Times
‘She cared': Slain ‘American Idol' music supervisor Robin Kaye remembered by peers
Veteran music supervisor Robin Kaye, best known for her lengthy tenure on 'American Idol,' leaves behind a legacy of 'light, kindness, and joy.' Singer-songwriter and former 'Idol' contestant Didi Benami in a Tuesday Instagram story praised Kaye as 'one of the kindest souls I've ever had the privilege of working with' as she mourned the executive's death. Kaye and her husband Tom Deluca are the victims of a double homicide that occurred in their Encino home, Los Angeles police announced Tuesday. They both died at age 70. 'Still in disbelief and trying to make sense of it all. My heart is broken. Some souls leave a light behind even after they're gone,' Benami wrote in another Instagram post shared Wednesday. 'Robin, you are so loved. Always will be. Honoring the light, kindness, and joy you brought into this world. May your memory— and the love you gave —never be forgotten.' Vocal coach Benami, who competed on Season 9 of 'Idol,' was among the musicians and music industry figures paying tribute on social media to Kaye and her contributions. Kaye served as a music supervisor on 'American Idol' from 2009 to 2023 and contributed to nearly 300 episodes during her tenure. In a statement shared with The Times on Tuesday, a spokesperson for 'American Idol' described Kaye as a 'cornerstone of the 'Idol' family' and said the production was 'devastated' by news of her and Deluca's deaths. 'She was truly loved and respected by all who came in contact with her,' the statement added. Randy Jackson, one of 'American Idol's' original trio of judges, echoed those sentiments on Instagram, writing on Tuesday that Kaye was a 'dear friend to me and so many — judges, executives, contestants, publishers, writers, producers, and artists alike.' He posted a photo of himself with Kaye, noting in his caption that she 'consistently went the extra mile, meticulously ensuring songs were placed and cleared for the show.' 'She was truly one of a kind,' he said. In a call with The Times on Wednesday, longtime 'Idol' music provider Brad Segal highlighted Kaye's sympathetic nature, loyalty and her dedicated work ethic. 'We all hope for that when you meet somebody,' he said. Segal said he met Kaye in the early aughts and had crossed paths with her over the years at other TV productions. He praised Kaye's wealth of 'knowledge of all types of music' and he said she provided a comfortable working experience that helped set the foundation of their years-long collaborations on 'Idol.' Segal told The Times that Kaye was accommodating to her collaborators, ranging from him to the contestants she worked with. Simply, 'she cared.' 'She cared about what she did. She cared about being fair,' Segal said. Kaye and Deluca are believed to have been killed after walking in on a burglary suspect inside their $4.5-million home Thursday, according to LAPD. The suspect — identified by homicide investigators as 22-year-old Encino resident Raymond Boodarian — is believed to have entered the heavily secured home through an unlocked door, police said. After the couple returned home, 'a confrontation ensued, which resulted in the suspect taking their lives,' police said. Their bodies were not discovered until officers responded Monday around 2:30 p.m. to a welfare check in the 4700 block of White Oak Avenue, where they discovered two people inside the home, LAPD Det. Meghan Aguilar said early Tuesday. Paramedics responded and declared the pair dead at the scene. Boodarian was apprehended Tuesday without incident by LAPD and FBI task force officers, Los Angeles Police Lt. Guy Golan, said. The killings appeared to be random, Golan said, but investigators were looking for any connection between the suspect and Deluca and Kaye. Times staff writer Richard Winton and deputy editor Joe Serna contributed to this report.
Los Angeles Times
2 days ago
- Los Angeles Times
Adam Scott severs himself from hype, which makes Emmys recognition for ‘Severance' a ‘delight'
Dystopian drama 'Severance' captured the imagination of overworked Americans when it depicted an employee revolt against an oppressive corporation. Now the series and its lead, Adam Scott, are being recognized by the Television Academy. On Tuesday, Scott was nominated for lead actor in a drama for his role as Mark Scout in the dark, sci-fi thriller. The Apple TV+ series is the most nominated show this year, landing 27 nods for its second season, including for drama series. In Scott's category, the competition features actors previously nominated for Emmys, including Sterling K. Brown for 'Paradise,' Gary Oldman for 'Slow Horses,' Pedro Pascal for 'The Last of Us' and Noah Wyle for 'The Pitt.' In the series, Scott's Mark S. is a macrodata refinement manager employed by the biotechnology corporation Lumon Industries. In order to work in the highly secretive complex, the mild mannered manager and his co-workers have undergone a 'severance procedure.' Their brains have been surgically altered, dividing their work life and home life into separate consciousness described by the company as 'innies' and 'outies.' The trouble begins when the line between realms starts to blur. Show creator Dan Erickson, executive producer and primary director Ben Stiller were also nominated, as were Britt Lower, Tramell Tillman, Zach Cherry, John Turturro, Patricia Arquette and Gwendoline Christie in the acting categories. Scott, who is also an executive producer on the show, spoke with The Times about the recognition, the series and how he separates himself from his work. 'Severance' has broken through in a way that I don't think anyone expected when it first arrived in 2022. It's a smart, heady show that requires some brain power. Now Season 2 leads the Emmy nominations. The feeling is incredible. I just am always sort of at a default position of nothing's going to happen, and I need to be braced for disappointment. I think that's a healthy disposition for a career in show business, and then I'll be delightfully surprised if anything goes in a different direction. I try not to read any of the stuff, the prognosticating. I stay away from it and keep it out of my head as much as possible, and then something like this [nomination] is just a pure delight. I love the idea that you block out the hype and conjecture around the show. It's a form of self-severance. It's true. I've been at this for 30 years now so I think that I've found ways to keep myself healthy, as much as possible, anyway. For me, that's just trying to sever myself from anything beyond keeping my head down and trying to do the best work possible. Clearly it's a tactic that's paid off, for you and your fellow cast mates. I'm so honored for our show to be recognized and to be on a list with everyone else — Britt and Tramell. Zach and John and Patricia and Merritt [Wever] and Gwendoline. And Ben and Jessica [Lee Gagné] and Dan. His wonderful script is being recognized. We work so hard on the show, every single one of us. It's a team effort, as any show is, but our show takes a lot of time. So getting recognized for that hard work is really gratifying, And there's something redeeming about such a smart show breaking through in such stupid times. [Laughs] Thank you. 'Severance' is sort of this intangible thing, so we work really hard to make it happen. While we're making the show and while Dan and the writers are putting it together, there's sort of this invisible third rail. You're not sure exactly what it is, but when it feels right, it's like OK, there's our show. It's a specific feeling, a specific tone that we're seeking out and sometimes it takes a while to zero in and find it. It's an original story that Dan came up with and it's very weird. For something this weird to be recognized is really gratifying because we were surprised when anyone watched. We didn't know if it would be a tiny audience. We thought maybe it's too weird, so when it broadened out popularity-wise, it was a huge surprise and a really lovely one.
