‘Hacks' EP and star Paul W. Downs on Deborah's shocking choice: ‘It is the most pivotal episode of the series so far'

Yahoo

28-05-2025

Hacks, "A Slippery Slope."
Not to be hyperbolic, but Thursday's episode of Hacks might be its most important one yet. "It is the most pivotal episode of the series so far," co-creator, co-showrunner, director, and star Paul W. Downs says on the latest episode of Awards Magnet.
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In "A Slippery Slope," written by Downs and fellow creators and showrunners Lucia Aniello and Jen Statsky, the repercussions of network head Bob Lipka (Tony Goldwyn) doing Deborah (Jean Smart) a "favor" the previous episode by firing Winnie (Helen Hunt) start to build when Bob asks Deborah to have scandal-ridden movie star Ethan Sommers (Eric Balfour) on her show. After Deborah acquiesces when she's asked to cut her joke about his secret Snapchat, a peeved Ava (Hannah Einbinder) spills all to her old On the Contrary boss Lewis (Aristotle Athari), who decides to do an exposé on the coverup and refuses to kill it despite Ava's pleas.
Bob tells Deborah to fire Ava because he needs give a head on a platter to the board. Just when it seems like Deborah will do just that and let Ava down again — she sends Ava on a fake assignment at the Oscars, Ava's badge is deactivated when she returns to the studio — she instead pulls a first: by putting someone else first for once. During her monologue on her post-Oscars show, Deborah announces that she won't fire her head writer and "creative partner" and "someone I love" as asked, and that this will be her final Late Night show, because she won't cave to corporate pressure. It is a slippery slope, and she says she's drawing the line — a nod to the title of the pilot, "There Is No Line."
"It's really the first time Deborah chooses a relationship over her career, chooses it puts Ava first," Downs says. "And also it allowed us in this episode to really address a lot of the stuff that we meditate on in the season, around the changes in the television industry."
SEE Hacks stars and EPs break down Deborah's promise: 'That's the thing that Ava is constantly dealing with'
One of the themes of Season 4 has been art versus commerce. By dropping Deborah and Ava, independent creatives, into the corporate world, they not only have a boss to answer to now, but shareholders, advertisers, and disruptive tech that constantly shift the goalposts.
"This is a business, and I get that," Deborah says in her monologue. "And there are good people on the business side who are trying to navigate the difficult intersection of art and commerce. But thanks to Wall Street and big tech disrupting our industry, it's gone too far. It's not enough to be No. 1 anymore or to make a profit or to even make you laugh. I might be a capitalist pig myself, but first and foremost, I'm a comedian. And I care more about making this show the right way than I do about making shareholders happy."
"As she says at the end of the day, 'I'm a comedian and I'm here to make people laugh,' and that is the thing that she loves to do and wants to do," Down says. "She says the dream changed because as much as this has been the dream, to do the dream today when our industry has been so disrupted by tech and just being a part of publicly traded conglomerates that have shareholders to answer to. ... This industry has been a profitable industry for a century. This was not a broken industry because people want entertainment, they want stories. Since the dawn of language, we've wanted stories, and for it to be disrupted in the way that it's been disrupted is really a shame because it's not just enough to make a profit."
And it's "impossible" to make a profit, Downs continues, "if you don't push down on all of the people, all the crews, all of the creatives, all the people that make those stories." While Hacks and Deborah's speech is about the entertainment industry, Downs believes it's a mutual feeling across any industry "where corporate greed has impacted the way in which people make things."
Downs, Aniello, and Statsky spent a great deal of time on the monologue as they also wanted to explore what it means to get your dream in 70s and the glass cliff, the phenomenon whereby underrepresented groups are put in leadership positions during crises. "What it's like to finally give a woman an opportunity to do something at a time when things have really changed or it's higher risk because the the potential for failure is even greater?" he says. "We were able to, I think, put in Deborah's mouth a lot of the stuff that we think about in this industry, that it's not just enough sometimes to make people laugh."
Jake Giles Netter/Max
The episode is also a big one for Jimmy (Downs), as the pressures of his new job — starting his own company with Kayla (Megan Stalter), who's being poached by her dad — begin compounding.
"We really think of Jimmy and Kayla as sort of this bizarro version of Deborah and Ava. They are their own duo, but we always try and dovetail their stories and have them reflect the larger themes that we're dealing with in the season," Downs says. "And so this season, it's one thing if you work at a management company and have deal with the culture there or deal with the downward pressure if it is again a publicly traded company, but now they're starting their own. So there's all the pressures of being a startup, being a sort of this fledgling management company, but also he's dealing with the stress of Deborah and Ava having the grist they have in the beginning of the season."
Like Deborah and Ava, Jimmy and Kayla also have completely different management styles. "She goes guerrilla mode, he leads with love, but this was such a fun episode because Jimmy was on a real emotional roller coaster."
Jimmy and Kayla frantically search for Dance Mom (Julianne Nicholson), whom they find passed out from a bender on the streets of Wisteria Lane. Dance Mom insists on doing cocaine to straighten out before her Late Night performance and demands that Jimmy "boof it." A hilarious tug-of-war ensues over Dance Mom's eight ball-loaded purse.
"We do a lot of alts, so there's not a lot of time to sit and rehearse, but that was one scene that, because there was so much physical comedy in it, it was so choreographed between, like, running to the door, cutting the coke, getting her out of the ice bucket," Downs says. "And obviously resets are so tricky with cocaine and ice water and all that stuff that we did rehearse that scene the night before. And so there was not really a lot of room for improvisation because it was very, very choreographed. "People had to knock on the door at the right time. We had to get her into the couch at the right time. She had to knock into a cart."
One thing Downs did improvise was Jimmy angrily putting the purse on his shoulder as he walked out the room. "You know, I had to take the purse and then why not wear it out?" he says. "There was a little bit of discovery on the day, and that was one of those moments."
SEE 'No one ever asks me to do comedy': Julianne Nicholson explains how she became Dance Mom on Hacks
After Dance Mom manages to perform, Jimmy reaches his breaking point, and just like Ava in the sixth episode, he drives off the studio lot (in a golf cart). But the nice guy that he is, he doesn't break the studio gate. After the ultimatum from Bob, Deborah goes to Jimmy's house to apologize for not showing enough appreciation for all he does, and to clue him in something. Before Deborah goes on for her monologue, she has a brief chat with Jimmy, and it's still murky what her big plan is.
"It was really tricky because you don't want to tip it one way or the other. You don't wanna like overly be mustache-twirly and make it seem like she's definitely done something sinister and you don't want it to seem like, 'OK, we're about to blow up the show, we're in cahoots in some way.' So it was very, very tricky cause we didn't want to push the misdirect. We wanted to make it a little bit neutral, and so there were a bunch of different versions of it," Downs says. "We did try a bunch because I was very aware. I think the way that I played it when I was thinking about it was I was playing it as if [Ava] was fired because I, knowing the truth of the scenario and what she was about to do, it was very hard not to be like, 'Poof, OK, you're about to go on television [and quit].'"
At the end of the episode, Bob tells Deborah that she can't do anything because that the network has an 18-month non-compete on her. The reveal after that doozy of an episode could've served as the season finale — and it nearly was. "It was the finale initially," Downs shares. "We considered it going out on the static [when the feed is cut] that it's like, 'Well, what happened there?' We also considered going out on, 'We own you, we have a non-compete.' ... But then we thought, why are we delaying that?" "That" being what transpires in the season finale.
The Season 4 finale of Hacks premieres Thursday, May 29 at 9 p.m. ET/PT on Max.
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