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'For Shubman to walk tall in the dressing room, it will be his runs which will help him the most': Anjum Chopra
It's quite a surreal feeling to think that Team India could actually have had the ongoing 5-Test series vs England, in England, in the bag by now. India remember haven't won a Test series in England since 2007, under Rahul Dravid's captaincy and Shubman Gill could well have rewritten the history books, and that too in spectacular fashion, by winning the first three Tests. And that is not wishful thinking, India actually had the upper hand in both the Tests they have lost so far in the series, in Leeds and at Lord's, for long periods of time. But the reality is that the visitors are 1-2 down, with two Tests left to play. That's two must-win matches, if they are to clinch their first Test series in England in 18 years.
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It would be completely unfair, of course, to say that there hasn't been anything to celebrate, as far as the Indian team is concerned, on this tour of England. Apart from their commanding performance in the Edgbaston Test (won by 336 runs), which was a historic win (first ever Test win by India at the venue), individual brilliance with bat and ball has to be given credit, along with first-time Test captain Shubman Gill's ability to compartmentalise his batting and captaincy responsibilities – something that former India captain Anjum Chopra chose to highlight in this exclusive interview with Firstpost.
Anjum, who became the first Indian female cricketer to be given honorary life membership of the MCC, and who played 12 Tests, 127 ODIs and 18 T20Is for India, scoring over 3600 international runs, discussed multiple talking points, including Shubman Gill as new India Test captain, how India could have been 3-0 up in the series, whether Ravindra Jadeja is an unsung hero and what he could have done differently in Leeds and at Lord's, the fact that England are beatable at home, what to expect in the upcoming fourth Test at Manchester – a venue India where have never won a Test match against England - and much more.
Excerpts from an exclusive interview with Anjum Chopra…
Let's begin with the captain - your take on what you have seen of Shubman the Test skipper so far. What has impressed you and what more would you like to see him do or maybe even change?
Chopra: I think it's quite early in the game to start judging Shubman the captain. That just won't be fair. All of us knew, in our heart of hearts, that one day Shubman would get the responsibility of captaincy. That was at the time when he had just been drafted by the Gujarat Titans. We knew he would get GT captaincy and eventually, someday, India captaincy as well. The Indian men's team has the luxury of looking to the future. The women's team can't do that because we first have to strengthen the present of the women's game in the country, allow the youngsters to say – 'I want to pick up this game and I want to play this game'. Our present needs to be strong enough to encourage the next generation to come in and be a part of the scheme of things.
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If we don't sort out our present, we will not have a future. So, Shubman for me is somebody who is still learning the ropes of captaincy and how to handle the team. While I will not judge his captaincy, I will use this opportunity to say that he is captaining an Indian team in England for the first time and yet how well he has managed to compartmentalise his batting and his captaincy and keep the two separate. Something we have seen him do in the IPL also. In the IPL (for GT) Shubman and Sai Sudharsan have been scoring consistently. And consistency matters. Look at how Sai walked into the Indian Test team.
With 607 runs in three Tests, Shubman Gill is currently leading the scoring chart in the series. Image: AP
I also felt Sai missed out on the second Test through no fault of his own. So, it is so nice to see how nicely Shubman has isolated the two roles (of batter and captain). It is brilliant. Plus, he has worked on the areas of concern in his batting. In terms of becoming a shrewd captain, that will be a work in progress. Slowly and steadily he (Shubman) will get there, because he is also trying to handle everything – the seniors around him, the advice coming in from the dressing room, the transformation in his own self – from a boy to a man to a captain.
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The changes also have come about quite nicely for him and very quickly. Now, it's possible that he will mature as a player quicker and learn the ropes of captaincy quicker, as well. So, right now he also has that buffer (of time because of his young age and how quickly things have happened for him). We are prepared to give him a lengthy rope. What I like about Shubman is that he is trying to have a strong presence on the ground. There are other (big name) players – KL Rahul, (Ravindra) Jadeja, (Mohammed) Siraj, (Jasprit) Bumrah – but because he is the captain, the cameras will always follow him. And you want him to be surrounded by such players – to earn their respect and also to have the luxury of being able to turn to them and asking them for their advice.
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While he learns on the job, he should be able to also lean on these players for assistance, because in some years he will be the one who will have to take youngsters (in the team) forward and if he doesn't have the luxury of learning from the current seniors then he will not have enough to pass on to the next generation. For Shubman to walk tall in this dressing room, it will be his runs that will help him the most.
That reminds me of a few news reports which highlighted the fact that in the first Test in Leeds, KL Rahul and Rishabh Pant were seen setting the field, even though Shubman was on the ground. What was so wrong with that? That was literally Shubman's first Test as India captain…
Chopra: It all boils down to how we want to perceive things. It depends on what we want to see and how we want to react. You need a captain and you pick the best possible resource. The likes of Virat (Kohli) and Rohit (Sharma) were natural leaders. You could see that. You only criticise what you want to criticise. Shubman won't have the wisdom of a Rohit Sharma right now and you don't want him to have it either – you want him to grow into that role. If everything happens on the first day, how will the player evolve? Slowly and steadily, you learn what help will come from where, what help I need from where. You can't hit a shot till the time the bowler bowls the ball, so as a batter also you are reliant on the bowler bowling the ball – whether it's while knocking the ball or in a match situation.
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We have identified him (Shubman) as our leader and we have to put all our weight and energy behind him as our leader and the Test captain of the country and back him. He is a good batter, a stylish player, a valuable asset. And these are things that should help us back him as a leader. You have thrown a player into the deep end, give him an opportunity to swim and be around to help. Let's not wait for him to fail, let's be there to help him succeed because that is essential. He is India's leader. He is not leading some other country.
Let's talk about the overall ongoing Test series now. The Leeds loss was a gut punch, the loss at Lord's was a heartbreak. India could very well have been 3-0 up, with the series in the bag currently. Would you agree with that?
Chopra: Absolutely. The Leeds Test was a match that India should have won. Second match they (Team India) won and then again in the third Test – with nine pure batters (couldn't chase down target of 193) – why are we counting Washington Sundar and Nitish Kumar Reddy as all-rounders only? They are all-rounders, yes, but they are (also) proper batters. With nine batters if you couldn't close down the game, that is your inability, not the opposition's brilliance. The opposition will come hard at you in any case. They are also playing to win the match. I felt that the Indian team missed the opportunity to close out the game (Lord's Test). Probably the lack of experience of the captain or the senior players not being able to assist the captain to close out the game. The opposition's job is to try to stop you from winning and your job is to close the game – that is where preparation also comes in.
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India suffered a narrow loss at Lord's Test after batters failed to take responsibility. Image: AFP
Let's talk about the man who almost took India across the finish line at Lord's – Ravindra Jadeja. Would you say that he is an unsung hero of Indian cricket? Here is someone who has been consistently at No. 1 in the ICC Test all-rounder's rankings for over 3 years straight now, but does Ravindra Jadeja really get his due?
Chopra: No, I wouldn't say that he (Ravindra Jadeja) doesn't get his due. He is acknowledged, he is widely respected. But he is also in almost the Deepti Sharma mould – that you are a consistent performer, but there is always someone else who is overshadowing you. Yes, he has been a match-winner, but he is not your natural leader. But he will always be one player you will fall back on when you are in adversity. But I wouldn't say that he is an unsung hero. There have been times – and I felt that in the first innings of the third Test (at Lord's) - (that) he (Jadeja) should have taken the game away with his experience and skill. Even in the first Test (at Leeds). That is where your experience comes in.
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Even if you are an unsung hero and not given your due, you be that strong force in the side. You could have played a lot faster, dominated better. And here I am not talking about the last two hours of the Lord's Test. I am not even going there. I am talking about the first Test, also the first innings of the third Test. He (Jadeja) is one of the stronger pillars of the Indian team and people do acknowledge that. You will not write down an Indian team (playing XI) without Ravindra Jadeja's name being there.
Would you agree that this England team is very much beatable in their own backyard? Also going by what happened at Leeds and at Lord's – what would you, the cricket analyst, say are the areas Team India should focus on with two must-win Tests left to play?
Chopra: Yes, they (England) are beatable. The very fact that in all three Test matches, the Indian team was in a situation where they could win the match is the biggest example that England are a beatable side. They don't have (James) Anderson and (Stuart) Broad. They don't have the kind of menacing spells which they have had in the past from spinners like Graeme Swann or Jack Leach. Yes, they (England) are definitely beatable. The Indian team is skills-wise and mentally a better prepared side because of the last four or so tours to England.
Ravindra Jadeja is integral to Team India but at times inconsistent. Image: Reuters
The Indian players are a much more confident lot. They couldn't close down the games in their favour (in Leeds and Lord's), they didn't win those small moments, they didn't improve (and work on) the errors they made in the first Test match. They have continued to make similar sort of errors. That is why they were pegged back. Why couldn't they get a first innings lead in the Lord's Test, especially after KL Rahul got a hundred? You can't say that the opposition took the game away from us. We know the areas we didn't strengthen and allowed England to come back into the contest.
Now that Nitish Reddy is out of the series and Arshdeep Singh is out of the Manchester Test, what are the possible changes you see Team India making for the fourth Test? Do you see Karun Nair retaining his place? India do also have the likes of Sai Sudharsan, Abhimanyu Easwaran and Dhruv Jurel in the squad…
Abhimanyu Easwaran should have been played many years ago. It is a very sad story. Suryakumar Yadav played ahead of him, Shubman Gill played ahead of him, Sai Sudharsan has played ahead of him. For the last four-five years he (Easwaran) has been travelling with this Indian team, but has not been played, which I think, somewhere down the line is unfair. This is a man who is consistently performing in domestic cricket and (then) we say that we are rewarding people from domestic cricket. In terms of what changes the Indian team makes – are they willing to play a Kuldeep Yadav, if the conditions remain very similar to what they were like at Lord's? It's warm there. We have just seen the (Indian) women's team play a match at Old Trafford (4th T20I vs England women). It will be a good batting track, so would you want to play another spinner? If another spinner has to be played then you will have to drop a batter.
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In the last Test the team couldn't chase down a target of 193 with nine batters. So, the team management will have to be comfortable making that call of going with one less batter and one more bowler. And who will that batter be who misses out? Do I go with Karun Nair? I think Karun batted really well. Barring the dismissals he has had, I think he has batted really well, going by the kind of shots that he has played. But somebody has to make way for another bowler in this line-up.
Kuldeep Yadav is yet to play a Test under Shubman Gill's captaincy. Image: Reuters
A hypothetical question now, because I don't understand why he hasn't been tried out yet. If Arshdeep hadn't picked up this left thumb injury in the nets and was available to play, would you have picked him in the playing XI in Manchester?
Chopra: Arshdeep is someone I would have played in the first Test match (itself) just because of the different angle (that he creates as a left-arm pacer). I did not understand why Arshdeep was not played. He has played county cricket. He is also coming into his own. As a bowler you take time to understand conditions, etc and mature. Why was a left-arm seamer not played ahead of a right-arm fast bowler? But maybe Arshdeep wasn't fully fit (earlier – before his thumb injury), maybe he wasn't bowling at his best in the nets, maybe he is not giving the team confidence – we don't know. It all depends on what the management is planning.
India haven't played a Test at Manchester since 2014. They have also never won a Test match at this venue from the first Test they played in 1936 till the one in August 2014. A lot has changed at the ground since 2014 of course. Your take on what the fans can expect from Team India in the fourth Test at Old Trafford….
Chopra: It's always had a good batting pitch. We saw that in the T20I that the girls played also (vs England women recently). What the fans can expect is again a very true surface. There has to be a little bit of juice in it for it to last five days. I don't think they will make a surface which will assist the spinners, because England also have to bat on it. Also, I don't think that they will make the pitch very spicy, because again both teams have to bat on it and anybody could be batting on it on Day One in the first couple of hours. It should remain a very true surface to score runs on. It could well be another battle of the batters, with the bowlers toiling hard to get those 20 wickets.
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