‘Dark Winds' Star Zahn McClarnon: 'I've Learned More in the Last Four Seasons Than in 30 Years'

Yahoo

21-06-2025

Zahn McClarnon has been a film and TV actor for more than 30 years, and in that time, he's often played, as he puts it, 'the bad guy or Indian No. 1 over here by the tipi.' He went on to be featured in a succession of popular shows, including Longmire, Westworld and Fargo, as well as playing the quirky police officer (and Big Foot enthusiast) Big on FX's Reservation Dogs.
So when George R.R. Martin and Robert Redford called him a few years ago asking him to be No. 1 on the call sheet for AMC's '70s-set Navajo detective series Dark Winds, there was no hesitation. What followed was a learning experience that surpassed anything he had done before, culminating in his upcoming directing debut in season four. The recently released third season saw McClarnon go deep into his character's past, uncovering repressed traumas that mirror experiences in McClarnon's own life, all while Joe Leaphorn tried to stop a murderer and reconcile his own morally questionable role in an earlier death.
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As we ease into Emmy season, the veteran actor hopped on a Zoom with THR to discuss the cultural strides that have been made, the role that he finds both hugely challenging and hugely rewarding, and how he untethers himself from his character at the end of the day.
Joe Leaphorn is a complex character — he's got a lot of trauma and loss in his past, yet he's a mentor, leader and husband, too. What was it that originally drew you to playing him, and what are the things that excite you most as he continues to evolve?
[Executive producers] Chris Eyre, Tina Elmo and George R.R. Martin came to me and asked if I wanted to be part of the show, and I was familiar with the Hillerman books [on which Dark Winds is based]. I'd read quite a few of them and I've read more since I started the show, but I was very familiar with Hillerman growing up and Chris Eyre is an old friend of mine. Just being part of a team with George R.R. Martin and Robert Redford is very exciting to me.
Joe Leaphorn is already pretty much a fleshed-out character throughout the books, so it wasn't an easy task, but the foundation was already set for Joe and I just had to bring my own version of the characteristics he has. Just to be No. 1 [on the call sheet of a TV show] is a dream come true for an actor. I've been in the business for a long time, and these kinds of opportunities don't come along — especially for somebody like me, because I'm not the typical leading man. So, I jumped at the opportunity, and I've become very close to my new family in the last four seasons. And what I like about Joe Leaphorn and how he's changing is that he's got a lot going on and he's been through a lot, and to be able to explore those aspects of a character are a dream for any actor in this business.
I recentlyand he pointed out how rare it is for a Native couple like Joe and his wife, Emma (Deanna Allison), to have their relationship shown in all its three-dimensionality. How do you feel about that relationship?
We all grew up with the stereotypes, and we just have not seen these kinds of relationships with Native people on television, ever. To be able, as an actor, to explore being in a relationship as a Native man, I've never had an opportunity to do that before. So people are seeing different parts of our culture and of the Navajo culture and seeing these characters from a different perspective because we have the Native writing room and Native directors, Native producers, Native crew people. I've just had a wonderful time being on the show and we hope to keep going with it.
And you're already in production on season four.
We are. We're getting down to the last two episodes now.
I understand you're making your directing debut this upcoming season. Have you gotten to work on that episode yet?
Yeah, we've shot my episode, which is episode two. We shot that first so I had time to prep, because otherwise I wouldn't have time to prep being in almost every scene. It was a great experience. And I have wonderful people to learn from: [executive producers] Jim Chory, Tina Elmo, [dialogue coach] Rob Tepper, Chris Eyre, a great DP in Blake Evans and Dennis Crow is my first AD. I can take that and put it under my belt and maybe do it again, we'll see what happens.
Why did you feel it was important or appealing to take on these additional roles of executive producing and directing at this point in your career?
They asked me to be an EP on the show, they offered that to me, and to be able to have the opportunity to sit in all the production meetings and help with casting and give notes on scripts and edits of the episodes is brand new for me and it's been a wonderful learning experience. I've learned so much being on Dark Winds for the last four seasons, more than I've learned in the previous 30 years of being an actor, because you are completely involved in all aspects of production.
And as far as directing, AMC asked me if I wanted to direct in the fourth season and I can't pass up an opportunity like that. It scared the heck out of me, it really did, being the number one [on the call sheet] and trying to direct. And I never had really any aspirations to direct, so when they asked me, it was just a huge learning opportunity for me to expand my horizons in this business. I've got a great team, and I knew that I wasn't going to fail with this team around me. The episode turned out really good, the story's being told and most importantly, AMC liked it. (Laughs.) So maybe we'll do it again, we'll see what happens.
Looking back, did you have a favorite moment from season three?
As an actor, you don't [often] get to be part of a character or show that develops over four seasons. It's not like a movie where you do this character for three months and you're done; I've been doing it now for four seasons, so those moments of realization were pretty special for me in season three. My character falling in love with his wife is a pretty special moment. And again, you rarely see that [with Native characters] on television.
There was also some really tough content in season three. Was there an aspect of the season that was most challenging for you?
The whole season was. It's a continued exploration of the tragedy that befell the Leaphorn family and the son's death and the consequences that come from that into what Joe Leaphorn did and his actions last season, and how it affects him mentally and his marriage with Emma. Just the struggle with guilt and the moral gray areas he's found himself in, the questioning of his decisions in season two with B.J. Vines: Did he really murder B.J. Vines or did he just leave B.J. Vines in the desert to fend for himself? Is that murder?
Those choices have [led] him to a lot of fear and anxiety throughout the season, but also it's a growth season, more about self-understanding and healing and going back into his past and reconciling those traumatic events that affected him and his loved ones. It was a challenging season, but it's [also] fun to dive deep into those psychological issues that any character has and we've got a good writing team.
You've said this season was cathartic for you as you tapped into experiences and traumas from your own past, which were similar to the relating to Joe's cousin when they were younger. What did that process entail for you?
Great directors helped me through all that and just created a safe environment, along with my first ADs. We closed down some of the sets with only the camera people, the first AD and the actors. And I've got a great team around me that allowed me to be vulnerable and be in those moments. Yeah, I've had some past history with some very similar events in my life, so it's pretty easy to tap into a lot of that … trauma? Sure, I've dealt with a lot of stuff throughout my life and one of the things I enjoy about acting is to tap into that stuff and make it real, because if it's not real and not honest, it shows up on the camera. I could relate to a lot of what Joe had gone through, and it was cathartic. But mainly it was the environment, the trust of the people around me, that [allowed me] to be vulnerable and [still] feel safe.
When you're dealing with such difficult, emotional content, how does it impact you? Do you find you take it home with you?
There was a moment in season three that — I wish I could articulate this — the lines became blurred. As actors we have to make things real, they have to feel real in my body and I have to feel like I'm in that situation. So, you do find yourself in moments where it's very real, and the whole environment makes it [feel even] more real. We've got great production designers that make it feel like the '70s, and you have the dialogue and the script, so you get to [these] moments where you really feel like you're in that situation. And that's what we all strive for as actors.
Again, I had this great team around me, so when I'm off the set and I'm still feeling that, I can go talk to them about it. Tina Elmo helped me out with that a lot, she held my hand or she hugged me. We talk through it, and then you come out of it. I think the main thing is the focus, that's what I have a hard time with. You're working a job for four months, and you're in it every day for 14 hours a day. It's that focus that the job requires, and it's hard to get out of. When the job is over, what do you do with all that focus? That's what I struggle with.
So, what do you do?
I've found things to help me with it, like taking off on a motorcycle for a month or going and hanging out with my mom or just driving in the car. I love driving, and I'll drive for a few days and go up and see my mom, and it helps me deal with losing all that focus, where I can replace it with somebody I love. I find different tools to deal with being that focused for so long and then dropping out of it immediately. And you know, they're healthy tools. (Laughs.) Back in the day, 25 years ago, I unfortunately had unhealthy ways to deal with some of that stuff. Today, it's healthy.
That's important. By the way, what kind of motorcycle do you ride?
I've got a couple bikes. I had four and I just got rid of a couple but they're all Harleys. I might be changing to a BMW GS, like a dual sport where I can do a little bit more gravel road, off-road, elastic stuff.
Emmy nominations are coming, and you could be nominated. In recent years, several other Native actors have been. I wonder if you feel like that win is coming soon for a Native actor, and what it would mean to you?
Oh, I think somebody's going to. We've got such great talent out there — D'Pharoah [Woon-A-Tai] was nominated last year for Rez Dogs, and Lily [Gladstone] came really close to winning the Academy Award. And we've got more content coming out. Sierra Ornelas just did a pilot for NBC, it's a Native comedy. We've just got too much talent out there for somebody not to get nominated or hopefully win one of those awards. And to be recognized by your community is a pretty cool thing. But we'll see what happens. Just to be in the conversation, to be honest with you, having a billboard or having people interviewing you, that's enough for me, it really is. People are recognizing the work you do.
Speaking of , you also played on a police officer on that show. Do you have a special affinity for those characters?
No, they just keep asking me to do them. (Laughs.) None of my family were in law enforcement or anything like that. I've learned quite a bit. On Longmire, I was a cop, too. And I did a film called The Silencing up in Canada with [Game of Thrones' Nikolaj Coster-Waldau], where I played a cop. I just get cast as cops. I'm this little 5-foot-6-inch guy, it doesn't make sense to me, but I guess it's because I have (in a deep voice) a strong presence. (Laughs.) I'm not going to say no, though!
Any last thoughts before I leave you?
We're not a documentary but it's an opportunity to reeducate people about [Navajo] culture and the values of that culture and it can lead to people getting more involved politically [because they get] to peek into a different culture. And it's a beautiful thing to be part of a television show that's also opening doors for Native talent. That's important to me. If I walk away from this business, I can say I was involved with something that did open these doors for Native writers, Native directors, Native producers, Native crew people. It's so difficult to get your foot into this business, and we've given a lot of Native people a foothold and something to put on their résumé — even myself as a first-time director. It's just a wonderful thing that AMC is backing and getting behind it and I'm very, very grateful for it.
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