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Auckland Council Defends Alcohol Rule Shakeup

Auckland Council Defends Alcohol Rule Shakeup

Scoop6 days ago
Auckland's tougher liquor laws needed to be implemented after 10 years of legal battles, otherwise the work could have been in vain, the council says.
Auckland Council is defending its Local Alcohol Policy (LAP), implemented last year, following recent criticism from a legal expert who said it was quickly becoming outdated.
Drafted in 2013, the LAP outlines the location, amount, and trading hours for alcohol businesses in the region.
The new rules included a two-year freeze on new off-licences in the central city and 23 other suburbs with the highest alcohol-related harm.
Concerns were raised on a possible 'technical error', because the LAP was connected to an older version of the Unitary Plan which only protected neighbourhood centres that existed in 2013, from proliferation of bottle shops.
However, Auckland Council policy general manager Louise Mason said there was a reason for linking the LAP to the 2013 Unitary Plan, and it wasn't a technical error.
"Linking the policy to the current version of the unitary plan - adopted in 2016 - would have meant starting the entire process again," Mason said.
"That would have likely led to further court proceedings, and another round of lengthy legal battles. This would have risked delaying the policy further or possibly preventing it from coming in at all."
Dr Grant Hewison, a lawyer who works with Community Against Alcohol Harm (CAAH) in south Auckland, called for an early review of the LAP because new neighbourhood centres that have since popped up since 2013 weren't being protected.
He said recent decisions by the licensing district proved this when new off-licences were granted at three new neighbourhood centres because they were out of the scope of the 2013 Unitary Plan.
According to the LAP, neighbourhood centres were commercial centres within residential areas.
Hewison also raised concerns over the end of a two-year freeze in 2026 on new off-licences in the central city and 23 other suburbs with the highest alcohol-related harm.
He said the LAP was now relatively an older document.
Mason said communities had been asking for the LAP for a long time, so the decision was made to continue with what had already been developed in 2012, rather than starting all over again.
Once the temporary freeze ends, the DLC should work on the presumption that any application for an off-licence in these areas should continue to be rejected, she said.
"This is already happening in some neighbourhoods and, so far, seems to be working."
Council staff were monitoring how the policy was working in its first year, she said.
"[This] including the off-licence freeze - and will report back to the mayor and councillors in early 2026."
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Tall towers versus volcanic views: The building blocks in Auckland's development
Tall towers versus volcanic views: The building blocks in Auckland's development

NZ Herald

time3 days ago

  • NZ Herald

Tall towers versus volcanic views: The building blocks in Auckland's development

The Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, thinks viewshafts 'eviscerate hundreds of millions of dollars of economic value', as he put it in a speech in mid-June. In other speeches in recent months, Bishop has quoted a 2018 study which suggested the toll-booth viewshaft has cost the central city in excess of $1.4 billion. So he's decided to do something about it. Others say, hang on. 'Most cities,' North Shore ward councillor Chris Darby says, 'have few really unique features. But we do. We have the volcanoes. Being able to appreciate them as you move around the city is one of the special things about living here.' Darby's view is probably shared by most of his colleagues. Over the Super City's 15-year history, Auckland Council has shown no interest in making any significant changes to the viewshafts. Bishop points out that in 2016, the council was told quite bluntly by an Independent Hearings Panel (IHP) that it should rethink its approach in order to achieve greater economic efficiency and reduced opportunity costs. That panel had reviewed the viewshaft proposals in the council's draft Auckland Unitary Plan, the big new document that was about to become the city's blueprint for what can be built where. For the most part, it didn't want them eliminated. But it did point out that the council had done 'no sensitivity analysis'. That is, despite having the necessary technology, it had not looked at whether even 'slight changes' might 'significantly reduce [the viewshafts'] impact on development opportunities while retaining views to the maunga [peak]'. Nor did it have a method for deciding if any loss in floor area of new buildings was 'an appropriate trade-off for the values of any particular viewshaft'. 'In the almost-decade since,' Bishop said in a speech in February, 'this work has not been progressed.' The Government has now told the council it must produce a new zoning plan which allows for greater density, and it must be done, with public consultation, by October 10. That's two days before postal voting closes in this year's council elections. The council is expected to consider its position at a meeting on July 31 – and a fight is brewing. There are nearly 80 viewshafts in Auckland. They're mapped like slices of pie: wedges that emanate from a single point where a person can stand, like the top of Newton Rd, or from a stretch of road you can drive along, like the northern approach to the bridge. Building heights are strictly limited inside the boundaries of each wedge, so the view of the natural landscape is preserved, and this creates an overlay on the planning zones. As a rule, buildings inside a viewshaft require a resource consent and if they are to be higher than 9m they may be regarded as 'non-complying'. In this context, it is extremely difficult for such buildings to get a resource consent. Most viewshafts have been in place since 1977, after the Pines apartment block was built on the side of Maungawhau (Mt Eden) in 1969, causing a public outcry and changes to planning rules. The outcry over The Pines, a multi-storey apartment block on Mt Eden, led to the protection of volcanic views. Photo / APN Not that views of Maungawhau have been completely preserved since then: the Department of Corrections was allowed to build a bigger Mt Eden Prison, interrupting the viewshaft from the motorway that runs past it. Much of the attention still focuses on the views of that maunga, which isn't surprising: the nearby central city is where most high-rise development occurs. In fact, Maungawhau is protected by 20 viewshafts, including one from Devonport and one from the Z petrol station on Kepa Rd in Ōrākei. But views of Te Pane o Mataoho (Māngere Mountain), Puketāpapa (Mt Roskill) and the other cones are protected too. And it's not just the cones: views of the Waitākere Ranges and some other ridgelines are also protected, along with views of the Auckland War Memorial Museum. The rules have had a dramatic effect on the city centre. The Sky Tower and the council building on Albert St are just outside the eastern edge of the toll-booth viewshaft, which is known as E10. There's another viewshaft protecting the view of Maungawhau from the bridge itself, called E16. It roughly parallels E10. If you look at the city centre from the north, across the harbour, you can see the effect plainly: east of the Sky Tower, the city is built up. But west of the tower, the level suddenly drops. The Viaduct, Wynyard Quarter, around Victoria Park and up to the new International Convention Centre on Hobson St are all part of the central city. But there are no tall buildings. Constructing high-rise buildings on all this land is prevented by E10 and E16. Bishop thinks the toll-booth viewshaft is especially absurd. Drivers on a motorway are supposed to keep their eyes on the road. But councillor Richard Hills, the chair of the council's policy and planning committee, says: '50% of morning commuters going over the bridge are in a bus, enjoying the view.' Even some of the cars have passengers. 'Tollbooth' view of Maungawhau/Mt Eden, 1962 Toll booths on the northern approach to the Auckland Harbour Bridge in 1962, showing Maungawhau/Mt Eden in the background. The protected viewshaft applies to the stretch with the toll booths. But if it was moved slightly west, to align with the stretch pointing straight at the maunga, more central city would be freed up for high rises. Photo / Whites Aviation 'Tollbooth' view of Maungawhau/Mt Eden, today The same view today, showing high rises east of the Sky Tower but not to the west, with Maungawhau clearly visible. Photo / Jason Dorday The minister rests his argument against viewshafts on the economic advantages that come with housing and workplace density, especially near major transit stations and along transit corridors. 'In a well-functioning city,' Bishop told his Committee for Auckland audience, 'a floor filled with smart people working next to each other, in a building filled with floors of smart people working next to each other, unsurprisingly, enables greater economic opportunities for productive growth. Proximity encourages collaboration and innovation.' That's on top of the more obvious benefits of having lots of people living and working near train stations and rapid bus stations. More people equals better transit services, because there are more passengers to pay for them. And that takes traffic off the roads. Having lots of people living closer to town also makes their commute shorter, which also takes traffic off the roads. This has become critical in Bishop's thinking about the City Rail Link (CRL), which will open next year, doubling the capacity of Auckland's rail network. 'The City Rail Link is a game-changing investment in the future of Auckland,' he said on June 25. 'It will unlock significant economic opportunity, but only if we have a planning system to allow businesses and residents to take advantage of it.' Chris Bishop: the minister who wants to change Auckland's volcanic viewshafts. Photo / Getty Images Because of this, Bishop used that February speech to call for zoning in Auckland to abandon the six-storey limit around major transit stops, which defines the height of most apartment blocks. That will impact E10, E16, the Newton Rd view (E20) and several other viewshafts. 'We are going to need to go much, much higher than that around the CRL stations if we truly want to feel the benefits of transit-oriented development,' he said. 'My aspiration is that in 10 to 20 years' time, we have 10- to 20-storey apartment blocks dotting the rail line as far west as Swanson and Rānui.' You can see the prototype now, in the form of the 10-storey Westlight Apartments in Glen Eden. The Westlight apartments in Glen Eden tower over the surrounding suburb. Why is there no Westlight in Kingsland, which has a train station and several bus routes? Partly, it's because of the protected views of nearby Maungawhau. It's also partly because of a 'special character' overlay, put there by the council, which preserves older housing areas. Bishop threw down the gauntlet: 'How about if our aim is to make the 'special character' of suburbs be that they are thriving, liveable, affordable communities with access to regular and reliable public transport?' In May, the council adopted new zoning rules for the central city. They allow for more density, but they leave large parts restricted to six-storey heights. The minister's gauntlet was left lying on the ground. He responded quickly. 'The Auckland CBD plan could go a lot further, in my view. It is a real missed opportunity and in due course, the council is going to have to have another look at it, particularly around the viewshafts.' On June 25, Bishop and the Minister for Auckland, Simeon Brown, pulled out their swords. They jointly announced they will legislate to require upzoning for buildings of 'at least 15 storeys' in the 'walkable catchments' around the Maungawhau, Kingsland and Morningside stations and at least 10 storeys near Mt Albert and Baldwin Avenue stations. Fifteen-storey buildings are about 50m tall. Walkable catchments extend in a radius of about 800m, which is taken as the distance of a 10-minute walk. The walkable catchment for the Maungawhau station includes the New North Rd ridge, whose current medium-rise buildings are capped to maintain the viewshaft from Newton Rd, which is known as E20. Bishop's 15-storey ambition would almost certainly spell an end to E20 and could well mean the same for E10, E16 and other Maungawhau viewshafts. The minister says he doesn't want to eliminate viewshafts. But what does he want? The signals are mixed. 'Even just minor tweaks to existing viewshafts could materially lift development opportunities,' Bishop said in February. 'The 2018 study showed that rotating the E10 viewshaft just 4.5 degrees to the left maintains the view of Mt Eden for a similar amount of time, whilst saving the city 43% of the lost development opportunity cost.' By 'to the left' he means to the west. Views of Maungawhau would be preserved not from the northern approach to the bridge, almost back to Onewa Rd, but from the stretch of highway closer to the bridge, when the maunga is more in front of you. The 4.5 degree adjustment would free up significant parcels of land for high rises. These include some of the Wynyard Quarter and the Viaduct, the Fanshawe/Victoria streets block at the bottom of Nelson St, the TVNZ and Convention Centre block on Hobson St, and the block bordered by Queen St, Karangahape Rd and Symonds St. It also includes the northern half of Wynyard Point, if the council was ever to decide a sentinel waterfront tower should be built there. But that's all within what Bishop calls 'minor tweaks'. His talk of 'economic evisceration', the 'immense' economic and social rewards on offer and new 15-storey and 10-storey buildings near stations all suggest he has more sweeping changes in mind. In August last year, he told the Herald the biggest barrier to building on the Maungawhau station site was viewshafts. And yet, when the Herald asked him directly what he wants – how his hopes for all those tall buildings relate to viewshafts – he replied with a carefully worded written response. 'The bill will provide for a qualifying matters framework which will enable Auckland Council to modify these heights [15 storeys and 10 storeys] to the extent necessary to accommodate a qualifying matter (such as the protection of viewshafts) if this level of development is inappropriate. 'However, any lower heights would need to be justified in accordance with the framework. I intend to use my Direction on the new plan change to reinforce the legislative requirement that heights and densities may only be reduced to the extent necessary to accommodate one or more qualifying matters.' This seems to mean there will be more high rises, but viewshafts could become qualifying matters that limit their extent. To some degree. The debate has ever been thus. Density is easy: almost everyone says it's a good thing, provided it's done in the right places and in the right way. But defining the wrong places and ways, known in the legal language of town planning as 'qualifying matters', is a process that defeats even the most optimistic attempts at consensus. Character Coalition chair Sally Hughes. Photo / Alex Burton Sally Hughes of the Character Coalition, an umbrella group dedicated to preserving the character of the villa suburbs, says changes to viewshafts, special character or other zoning laws are not required because there are 'plenty of under-utilised sites' near the Kingsland and Maungawhau stations 'which are ready for intensification now'. Who doesn't think, when it's their own street, their own view, their own sun at stake: don't do it here, do it somewhere over there? The source of Bishop's thinking on viewshafts is a 2018 paper called City with a Billion Dollar View, written by Geoff Cooper, a former economist with PwC and Auckland Council. It was Cooper who came up with the toll-booth anomaly, the benefits of tweaking E10 by 4.5 degrees and that $1.4b figure for lost economic opportunity. Cooper is now the chief executive of the crown agency Te Waihana: the Infrastructure Commission and, at least informally, has the ear of the minister. Geoff Cooper, author of the report that got the minister thinking. As for Cooper's old employer, Auckland Council, it does not subscribe to his analysis of the economic damage done by viewshafts. The Herald talked to the council's manager of central area planning, John Duguid, about all this in May. Duguid said he doesn't see the need for higher buildings in the E10 viewshaft. 'East of E10,' he said, referring to the parts of the central city already built up, 'there's still a lot of development potential.' Duguid also said the toll-booth story is a myth: E10 has never been just for drivers queueing at the booths. Auckland Council planning boss John Duguid. Photo / Dean Purcell He thinks if it does need to be changed, 'it could be narrowed a bit'. If you squint, that sounds a bit like the minister's 'tweaks'. Even Cooper said something similar in 2018: he called for changes that would 'provide a middle path for city planners that reduce the cost, while preserving views'. But Duguid and the council seem largely intent on preserving the status quo and the minister wants change. The council, Bishop says, has been 'dragging its feet'. Let's back up a little. First, to note that the 14 prominent volcanic maunga of Tāmaki Makaurau are governed by the Tūpuna Maunga Authority, which comprises equal membership from Ngā Mana Whenua o Tāmaki Makaurau and Auckland Council. The Government will need a strong relationship with the authority, Ngāti Whātua Ōrākei and the other relevant iwi, if it wants to change the way we value, see and use the maunga of Tāmaki Makaurau. Second, to note the wider planning context. When the Auckland Unitary Plan (AUP) was adopted in 2016, it preserved the viewshafts while also allowing for the 'character areas' Bishop is annoyed about. This provision has been used to protect the villas of the city fringe: the ring of suburbs that runs from Devonport across the harbour to St Mary's Bay, Ponsonby, Grey Lynn, Mt Eden and Parnell. In 2020, the Labour-led Government's National Policy Statement on Urban Development (NPS-UD) required councils in the larger centres to change their district plans (in Auckland's case, the Unitary Plan), in order to provide for more substantial housing growth than most had been willing to accept. This was followed by new Medium Density Residential Standards (MDRS) in 2021 and a revision to the NPS-UD in 2022. All were aimed at achieving greater density. In Auckland, the council responded by drawing up Plan Change 78 (PC78) and putting it on a slow track to approval. Most councils have now made their plan changes, but Auckland Council has completed PC78 only in respect of the central city, despite closing public submissions nearly three years ago. PC78 (Central City Zone) contains higher limits for development in some areas, but there is no rethink of the viewshafts or the six-storey limit more widely. This was largely supported in submissions from the public. Bishop is clearly frustrated. The minister speaks positively of the NPS-UD and says he will build on it, not abandon it. His Resource Management (Consenting and Other System Changes) Amendment Bill, which will speed up urban density, is back from select committee hearings and due to become law next month. In relation to the bill, Duguid says: 'Our working assumption is that applying 'qualifying matters', including maunga viewshafts, will still be an option, albeit with more onerous requirements to justify them.' On the other hand, Bishop wants those 15-storey buildings near Maungawhau, Kingsland and Morningside stations. The new Maungawhau railway station is the patterned building in the middle distance. Six railway lines run through tunnels under here, and now the enormous empty site is ready for intense developed over the next decade or two. How tall should the buildings be? Maungawhau mountain is away to the left. Photo / Sylvie Whinray And he has told the council: 'The Government is also considering whether further amendments to the bill to fully maximise development opportunities around other CRL stations are necessary, and I will have more to say in due course.' That is, station precincts on the Western Line won't be the only ones to get new height allowances. Ōrākei, Meadowbank and Glen Innes on the Eastern Line and Newmarket, Remuera, Greenlane and Ellerslie on the Southern Line are all no further away from the city centre than the Western Line's Mt Albert. Duguid and his staff have been busy preparing options for a council response to Bishop's pronouncements, for debate by the governing body of council on July 31. Defenders of the viewshafts have taken a persuasive lead role for many decades in the planning and consultation processes of Auckland Council and its predecessors. Prominent among them have been the Auckland Volcanic Cones Society and the Friends of Maungawhau. Roy Turner of the Volcanic Cones Society was the planner charged by the Auckland Regional Council with writing the original 1976 report on viewshafts. In March, he told the Herald that he likes 'most of what Chris Bishop is advocating, but with the cones issue, some of his justification is misguided'. Turner suggests we think about it this way. 'There is a massive area of open space in central Auckland called the Auckland Domain. An economist might calculate how many billions of dollars have been lost by not developing here. The public would respond by saying this is truly an Auckland icon: hands off, no way can we develop here. 'Quite right, but can't we have our cake and eat it too? Let's just take 10%. A few years down the track, on balance, let's take another 10%, for the same reason, and so on.' Others see it differently. At Greater Auckland, Scott Caldwell has attempted to distinguish between 'the good, the bad, the ugly' and the 'bit ridiculous'. Some viewshafts are blocked by trees, others emanate from places almost no one ever goes. Better to keep the trees and the views that really are valued? Caldwell's not against all viewshafts. Maungawhau as seen from Mt Eden Village, he says, looms above the street magnificently. He'd definitely keep that one. And he has a proposal. He points out that Instagram is full of maunga photos, but they're not of the maunga. Instead, they're nearly all taken by people standing on the mountain and looking at the view from it. These are the views we really value, he says, so they're the ones we should protect. Scott Caldwell suggests the more valuable views are from the maunga. This is a viewing platform on Maungawhau, looking across North Head to Rangitoto. Photo / Alex Burton If the Government changes the viewshaft rules in favour of economic growth, affordable housing, optimal use of transit or some other purpose, how big will the benefits be? We don't know the answer to that, but last month Bishop told the Herald he has instructed officials to find out. They're looking at 'the impact of Auckland's viewshafts on development capacity and economic activity across Auckland'. He added: 'I acknowledge there are also benefits, including to mana whenua, which are difficult to quantify.' Bishop wants the work done this year, although it will probably not meet the October 10 deadline for Auckland's new plan change. But, he said, 'it will help to provide a good evidence base for future plan development as part of the new resource management system'. That all looks like a message for the council: the work you could have done, and should have done, according to the Independent Hearings Panel in 2016, is now being done by the Government. If the council won't address the challenges and opportunities for growth and housing in Auckland, the Government will. If you don't build it, we will come. And we will do it for you. Simon Wilson is an award-winning senior writer covering politics, the climate crisis, transport, housing, urban design and social issues, with a focus on Auckland. He joined the Herald in 2018.

Auckland Council Spends $14.4 Million On Colin Dale Park Facility
Auckland Council Spends $14.4 Million On Colin Dale Park Facility

Scoop

time4 days ago

  • Scoop

Auckland Council Spends $14.4 Million On Colin Dale Park Facility

The Auckland Ratepayers' Alliance can reveal through a Local Government Official Information and Meetings Act request, more than $14,393,977 has been spend by Auckland Council on the Colin Dale Park development since 2014. While the facility was initially presented as a motorsport facility that would be funded through the Colin Dale Park Kartsport Development Charitable Trust, ratepayers have ended up paying tens of millions towards earthworks, drainage, power, and more. Auckland Ratepayers' Alliance spokesman Sam Warren said: 'What was meant to be a club-led effort has turned out to be a $14 million dollar white elephant funded by Auckland ratepayers. Where's the accountability on this?' 'Ratepayers should not be funding infrastructure for private organisations – virtually everything but the track itself looks to have been paid for by hardworking ratepayers that will never use it.' 'Auckland Council had already contributed $2.8 million from a local board grant in 2014, and then followed through with another $2.5 million last year. Now that we've exposed the real number for exceeding $14 million, you have to wonder where this all stops?" "No more blank cheques for white elephants. Auckland Council has no business funding private endeavours that should stand on their own two-feet.'

'We Don't Get Richer Buying Each Other's Houses': How Auckland's Affordability Story Has Improved
'We Don't Get Richer Buying Each Other's Houses': How Auckland's Affordability Story Has Improved

Scoop

time5 days ago

  • Scoop

'We Don't Get Richer Buying Each Other's Houses': How Auckland's Affordability Story Has Improved

Recent housing affordability rankings have been notable for one thing - Auckland hasn't been in the bottom 10. For many years, it was common for the city to feature among the most unaffordable in the world. But in the most recent Demographia research, it came in at 16th. Hong Kong, Sydney and San Jose, California, were the most expensive. Brisbane, Perth and Melbourne all ranked more unaffordable, on a house price-to-income basis, than Auckland. Auckland had house prices 7.7 times incomes, on average, compared to 14.4 in Hong Kong. So what's driven the improvement, and is it likely to last? Ryan Greenaway-McGrevy, associate professor in economics at the University of Auckland, said part of it was due to the big increase in the supply of housing in the city. "We've been building a hell of a lot of houses in Auckland, mainly since passing the Unitary Plan. That's allowed the supply of housing to catch up with population growth because for a long time we haven't really built enough houses relative to population." He said, since the plan came into force in 2016, there had been a "massive construction boom". "I think over the eight years since then we've issued permits for about 127,000 new dwellings… in 2016, we had just over half a million dwellings in Auckland, so that's a massive figure." Greenaway-McGrevy said most of the consents would turn into houses that were built. "We don't really know how many houses are torn down but that just gives you an indication of the amount of construction activity that's been happening." The fact that rents had dropped in real terms in Auckland too showed the impact of the increased supply, said. "There's been a big divergence between rents in Auckland and the rest of the country." He said it also helped that many of the properties built were townhouses and apartments. "They require less land and they're smaller so that's going to be reflected in median prices. So you've got this compositional shift that the median price is picking up." Demand was also weak due to the economic downturn and the increase in interest rates, he said. "A lot more supply and factors limiting demand should all add up to pressure on house prices." The economy should improve and demand would pick up again, but government settings would help affordability, he said. "We've got a set of policy settings where the housing market on the supply side should be more responsive to demand. We've shifted from a situation where housing supply was really unresponsive to demand, to one that's markedly improved so hopefully we'll see fewer constraints on housing supply as Auckland continues to grow in the future." Infometrics chief forecaster Gareth Kiernan agreed the unitary plan had improved supply of housing and made intensification a lot easier. "There are more smaller, and therefore cheaper, housing options available than ten years ago." He said consenting at the current levels combined with close to zero net migration over the next couple of years would further reduce the undersupply of housing. "Let's be clear though: Auckland might not still be in the top 10, but it's nowhere near affordable…house-price-to-income ratios are still worse than at any time prior to 2016." Kelvin Davidson, chief economist at Corelogic, noted that the Demographia comparison did not include the impact of interest rates. Higher interest rates can mean lower house prices but the cost of ownership can still be higher. But he said it was clear the picture had changed for Auckland, "The word shortage is just not talked about anymore. There seems to be a bit of an equilibrium going on at the moment." Government changes around planning reform should help to stop unaffordability reaching the highest levels it hit before, he said. "Housing isn't necessarily affordable in its own right. It's still pretty expensive, but there will be people that still access the market, and I think we can see it with the first-time buyer numbers at the moment. They're really, really strong. "There is, I don't know, an equilibrium at the moment … if you have saved for a bit, and you can satisfy the bank, you're going to be able to find a decent property at a price you can afford and you know money is available. There's a balance between supply and demand, so it sort of feels like there is some kind of balance, which is good. We've needed a period like this for a long time. "I think Chris Bishop's comments a couple of days ago, about decoupling this idea that, you know, to have a strong economy, we have to have a strong housing … I think is a great thing. We don't get richer as a country by buying and selling each other's houses." Demographia considers a ratio house prices three times income affordable but Davidson and Greenaway-McGrevy said that was unlikely to be achievable for Auckland. "As much as I would love to tell you that that would be attainable and feasible, that seems a heroical aspirational goal," Greenaway-McGrevy said. "But if we thought about a multiple of five or six, if we could attain that, that would be great." Davidson agreed it was far outdated. "In some parts of the world for whatever legacy reason it may sort of make sense but I think you have to just acknowledge the world we're in now, it might have been the benchmark at some point but your benchmark has got to change sometimes to reflect reality. A multiple of three is just incredibly unlikely ever again."

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