Why Jen Atkin Asks ‘Awkward' Questions—and Listens to Kris Jenner's Career Advice

Elle

18 hours ago

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In ELLE's series Office Hours, we ask people in powerful positions to take us through their first jobs, worst jobs, and everything in between. This month, we spoke with celebrity hairstylist, businesswoman, and author Jen Atkin. She's the founder of the prestige hair care brand Ouai and has been called the 'most influential hairstylist in the world' by The New York Times. But her origin story includes growing up in a conservative Mormon community where female ambition was not encouraged, and coming to L.A. at 19 years old with $300 in her pocket. Known for her humor, business savvy, and work ethic, Atkin also wrote the advice book Blowing My Way to the Top: How to Break the Rules, Find Your Purpose, and Create the Life and Career You Deserve, where she talks about surviving the hustle culture of the 2000s and starting her own business. Atkin is now the chief creative officer of Ouai, and the brand recently launched its Super Dry Invisible Dry Shampoo. Here, she talks to ELLE about how she handles burnout, her most revealing interview questions, and the two essential lessons Kris Jenner has taught her.
My first job
I was always very independent and wanted to have an allowance. My parents had a travel agency, and back then, you'd have to print out your paperwork, invoices, and itinerary, and I'd put them in a little folder for their clients. Also, I would fan out all the travel brochures. I was 12. I'd make sure they were in alphabetical order starting from Alaska.
Then, in high school, I started working at Little Caesars, because that's where all the hot guys worked. My first boss came to my father's funeral in a wrapped Little Caesars van to pay respects. He was always so proud of me, and we still keep in touch.
I grew up Mormon, and the biggest thing I learned was goal setting. From the age of 10, if I wanted to get something, I had to pay for half of it. I had to pay my car insurance if I wanted a car. I hated it as a kid, because I felt like my friends were just handed things. But when adulthood hit, I was prepared.
My worst job
I worked for a hairstylist who was really impatient and not the happiest person. I was his assistant. He himself was probably tormented as a young hairstylist. But if I was holding the foils and not paying attention to what stroke he was at, or was at the pace he wanted, he would paint bleach on my fingertips. It would burn, and I would have to wait until we were done with the highlights to wash my hands. I've also worked for people who were very needy, not super responsible, and I'd have to take care of them. That was really hard. But it also made it so that I don't torment the people who work for me. I've been there, and it taught me resilience.
It's so name-dropping of me, but I go to Kris Jenner when I'm having moments of doubt or I'm trying to make a decision. I remember one time, I was dealing with my investors, and I laid it out for her. She said to me, 'You have so many wonderful things you're going to do, and you're doing so great. This is your first time, and don't be hard on yourself.' Basically, she was saying, 'Don't sweat it, and don't compare this to whatever you think it is supposed to be.' That really helped me so much.
She loves to say, 'If someone says no, then you're talking to the wrong person.' I fully feel that. I've seen that many times in my career. When I started Ouai, I was originally looking for partners, and I was turned away a lot by successful hair brands. They said, 'You're not famous enough. It's too soon. No one knows who you are.' It was really hard to get through to people at the beginning.
I feel like the one superpower I have is asking a million questions and not being afraid to ask awkward ones. I never show up with this false confidence that I know what I'm doing. I went to Hawaii public school. I don't have a business degree. I've tried to learn as I go along. Trying to raise money was really the hardest for me. At that moment, I was doubting myself. I went to anybody who knew people that might have money to invest in this brand. To this day, I still have close clients, friends, and colleagues who are kicking themselves.
I've been really good with managing my money, but I've never been driven by anything financial. I've never put a number on a mood board. There are so many times where I am like, 'Wait, what did we spend on this? How much did we make last year?' I don't track all of that, because I feel like it takes away from the creative, messaging, and formulation.
I try not to, but I have had to learn certain [financial] terms. At the very beginning, I was like, 'What's an ROI?' I would stop people. We'd be on these calls with bankers and investors. They were really patient with me. I wasn't embarrassed to say, 'I don't know what this means.'
Why I started Ouai
On the product landscape, there were so many things that needed to be disrupted. The first thing was that I wanted a formula that smelled really modern, and that did not exist at the time. I wanted something that felt like it was talking to you, not at you. I didn't want it to make you feel discouraged about what you look like. I felt like we needed a digitally connected brand. It was really, really hard to get the old guard to pay attention to that concept. It hadn't been proven yet that it was going to work. I got turned away in 10 to 15 different conversations. But everything worked out, and I found a great partner. Here we are, 10 years later.
How I survived hustle culture
I got through it with a lot of dry shampoo, for real. I was starting the brand while I was still taking care of celebrities. I was also dating this cute guy and was like, Wow, I would marry him. But why did he come into my life right now? It was so much. I was traveling a lot, but also really grateful for opportunities. That was where that work ethic came into play—I would say yes to everything, because you never knew where it was going to lead. I got so wrapped up in it that I started to see physical [side effects], like exhaustion. I'm really proud of how hard I could push myself, but it was getting to a point where I was not happy anymore. I looked in the mirror, and I was a shell of myself. I would think, I used to be funny. I feel like I got a glimpse of it when I had kids too, where I didn't see myself in the mirror anymore. I was cut down and in survival model.
I'm finding myself now in the hustle of motherhood. I'm trying to put on my oxygen mask first. Now, I will not go in first thing and grab the kids. I'll let them have 20 minutes of alone time while I go downstairs, get coffee, and have a quick meditation to remind myself that I need to be okay to show up [for them]. There is no magic solution. You have to work at it every day. Honestly, if you're so passionate about work and what you're doing, it can become an addiction. I feel like I'm still working on having that balance, but I've gotten so much better. Also, big shout out to [the supplement] L-Theanine. I feel so much calmer since I started taking it.
On making our dry shampoo new again
We have a dry shampoo, and we said, 'Let's try to reinvent it.' We've always tried to stay modern, look at what we're doing, and see what needs to be given a facelift. We got a lot of feedback from our community for a super dry shampoo.
With this one, we updated the formula a little bit and made it so easy for you to get all of that oil out. I love getting the instant gratification of a spray and moving on with my life. I don't want to have to worry about white streaks or how to place it.
My power outfit
I've had to rebuild my closet [since my house burned down in L.A.]. I have a really small closet in Seattle, and I don't think I'm ever going back to having a huge one. I love buying The Row, Khaite, and Toteme. I shop from The RealReal. I just learned about Pickle.
I also have to shout out J.Crew. I hadn't been there in maybe 10 years. There is one at University Village by our house. We were walking with the kids, and I was like, Babe, I want to go get a couple things. I was there for an hour, and looking at these thin T-shirts like what I wore in high school. J.Crew is killing it. They have had a comeback.
My open tabs
Right now, Google Docs, a family calendar that's shared with our assistant, a personal to-do list, Ouai, and then another brand I'm advising. Figma has become my life. Nothing makes me more excited than a shared Notes with the little boxes that people can check off as we're doing things. Also, it is very provocative for me to say this, but I don't like Slack. I had to get off of it. I couldn't handle it. It felt like Mission: Impossible, with too many things and conversations. It stressed me out.
The questions I love to ask when hiring
I have a list of questions that I probably found on Pinterest. But really, I look for somebody I like. One of my favorite questions to ask is, 'What was something that went really bad at work, and how did you get through it?' Also, 'Who's somebody that you've worked with that you have a great relationship with? And explain that to me, how did it happen? Who's someone you had a horrible relationship with at work, and how did you handle it?'
You learn so much in those questions. You see this nice person, who is all buttoned-up, and then they start talking about somebody they didn't have a good relationship with. You can really tell how someone handles conflict and resolution. I like to ask those questions because you're joining a family, and you can't have super selfish people. I don't like to have people on the team who are not happy, aren't taking care of themselves, and want to ruin everybody else's lives. We have had so many wonderful people at Ouai. I take pride that we haven't had a lot of turnover.
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.