Des Geraghty: ‘The real problem in fascism is the people who are insecure'

Irish Times

20 hours ago

Throughout his long career in
public life
, Des Geraghty has been many things: trade union leader, politician, author, musician and campaigner. With such a varied resumé, one wouldn't think there'd be room for another string to his bow. But it seems he also missed his calling as an actor, at least if his command of Shakespearean drama is anything to go by.
Geraghty is sitting in the crowded cafe of the
National Gallery
, musing on the effects of social inequity and economic uncertainty, when he suddenly starts to recite a passage from Julius Caesar to make his point.
'That lowliness is young ambition's ladder, whereto the climber-upward turns his face,' he exuberantly incants, his voice rising above the clatter of crockery, 'But when he once attains the uppermost round, he scorns the base degrees by which he did ascend.'
Geraghty delivers this (slightly truncated) passage after making a more prosaically phrased observation about society: 'Once you get on this ladder and you go up a bit, and you get a house, you start looking at people who don't have one.' If his theatrical flourish doesn't necessarily herald a new acting sideline, it underlines Geraghty's multifaceted approach to activism down the years, encompassing education and culture as well as economics and politics.
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The 81-year-old former
Siptu
president has now pulled together these disparate strands for a new documentary film on one of his heroes, 1916 leader
James Connolly
, entitled We Only Want the Earth. Written and directed by acclaimed film-maker
Alan Gilsenan
, with Geraghty as executive producer and driving spirit – he first mooted the project in 2003 – the film focuses on Connolly's life and ideas rather than his role in the Easter Rising.
'I was more interested in his life than in his death,' Geraghty says. 'He had a very fruitful life before 1916, probably more relevant to today's world.'
Accordingly, the film, which has been screened at festivals around the country, vividly weaves Connolly's biography with contributions from environmental, trade union and trans rights activists – 'practitioners who have been influenced by Connolly's vision' – as well as poetry and song from the likes of Christy Moore and Stephen Rea. It's an approach that reflects Geraghty's belief that Connolly's legacy still matters.
'I could be described as irreligious, but I believe very much in the spirit. And I think there's a spirt of Connolly, and it's a spirit that the Irish people inherited, personally and collectively,' he says. 'That's particularly important to me in today's world. I'm depressed by the fact that the working class in many parts of Europe, and in Ireland, are being attracted to very right-wing ideas like sectarianism, ultranationalism, racism, hostility to migrants, quite the opposite of what the spirit of Connolly would represent.'
There's no doubting the importance of Connolly to Geraghty's own political philosophy, though he's inspired more by the executed rebel's union activities than his fateful decision to take up arms.
James Connolly: The 1916 leader 'argued the worker should be building structures for a new society in the workplace - that always stuck with me', says Des Geraghty
'If you were going to put a political description on me, it would be a constructive socialist,' he says. 'And I got that from Connolly. He argued the worker should be building structures for a new society in the workplace. So that always stuck with me. Throughout my career, I've been seen as too left-wing for some, and not left-wing enough for others, but I like to think I was in the process of constructing coalitions of people to build a better society.'
For the 35 years that he worked as a full-time union official – first with the Irish Transport and General Workers Union (ITGWU), then its successor Siptu – Geraghty was at the coalface of industrial relations, involved in struggles and negotiations with employers. (Ryanair boss Michael O'Leary wasn't a fan.) But he displayed an expansive attitude to his brief, whether being involved in left-wing politics or helping negotiate the social partnership agreements that underpinned the Celtic Tiger.
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Alan Gilsenan: 'I would have had a dreamy, artsy-fartsy notion that a united Ireland would be great'
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Since stepping down as Siptu leader in 2003, he has enjoyed a high-profile second act, mixing service on the boards of public bodies with campaigning. And while he studiously avoids comment on his successors, he thinks the trade union movement needs to aim higher than seeking better pay for members.
'I believe the union movement gets its strength when it's broadly embracing the wider principles: the economy, the status of people, families, access to housing, healthcare, all the areas where trade unions work,' he says. 'I was on my own at times on the left by arguing for social bargaining at national level, for the reason that we could bring in issues of concern for people on social welfare or the unemployed.
'I'll give you a simple example. The last negotiation I was involved in very centrally was the last social partnership agreement [the Sustaining Progress programme of 2003-2005], when we put the issue of housing on the agenda, and got a commitment in the agreement for 10,000 affordable houses.'
Citing achievements from the Celtic Tiger era may seem counterintuitive given how things unravelled in the 2008 crash, but while he talks about a better future, Geraghty has a keen sense of history, both Ireland's and his own. Gregarious and erudite, he makes regular conversational diversions into passionate polemics, historical precedents, literary references and personal anecdotes.
His family background, in particular, remains central to his worldview. A self-described 'proud Irishman and Dubliner', he was born in the Liberties in 1943 to parents with strong republican connections. As described in his 2021 memoir,
We Dare to Dream of an Island of Equals
, his father Tom was a member of republican youth organisation Na Fianna Éireann, while his mother Lily's brothers went on the run during the independence struggle: his uncle Jack had been in Connolly's Citizen Army. 'They were very Larkinite republicans,' Geraghty adds, referring to Jim Larkin, founder of the ITGWU and union leader during the turbulent 1913 lockout.
Des Geraghty: 'My mother should have been the minister for finance; she fed us all when my father was unemployed.' Photograph: Nick Bradshaw
Money was tight. 'My mother should have been the minister for finance; she fed us all when my father was unemployed.' But he remembers a culturally vibrant childhood. 'There was always singing in our house,' he says, recalling the music played by nearby neighbours who were in the Furey folk dynasty. It began his lifelong love of Irish music, both as musician – he plays the flute – and folklorist: in 1994, he wrote a biography of his old friend
Luke Kelly
, singer with The Dubliners.
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From the archive: Daring to dream of an island of equals
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Geraghty went straight into work after school, including a stint as an RTÉ cameraman, before becoming a full-time union official in 1969. He also married the late Irish Times journalist Mary Maher: they later separated, but remained friends until her death in 2021. (Former Siptu economist Rosheen Callender has been his partner for many years.)
Parallel to this, he was involved in politics, first as a member of the Workers' Party – he stood unsuccessfully for the European Parliament in 1984 – and then its post-split iteration, Democratic Left. He represented the latter in the European Parliament in the early 1990s, when he came in as substitute for sitting MEP Proinsias De Rossa. He did not stand for re-election, however – it was agreed he would return to Siptu. Apart from an unsuccessful Seanad run for Labour in 2002, he largely eschewed party politics.
Though he believes the labour movement needs both a political and industrial arm, he is clearly frustrated by the fractures in left-wing politics.
'There's a lot of splitting hairs of politics,' he says, pointing to the rivalry between the Labour Party and the Social Democrats.
'My own view is I don't want to get involved in that,' he adds. 'I was never a sectarian in my political outlook. I always worked with everyone in the union – there were great shop stewards who were Fianna Fáil-ers. I suppose my philosophy would have been that you've got to embrace all.'
His all-encompassing attitude that 'trade union voices should be heard anywhere decisions are made' was put to the test when, in the depths of the crash in 2009, he was approached by the late Brian Lenihan, then finance minister, to join the board of the Central Bank. 'I said, 'you must be joking, I've no time for bankers and I've less time for them now',' Geraghty recalls.
But after relenting under Lenihan's persistence, he was appointed as chair of the risk committee. He still remembers Central Bank official delivering a stark assessment of the debt accumulated by Irish banks. 'She had a white face,' he recounts. 'I said, 'give it to me straight, what is the situation?' Now, I'd been reading all the journals and papers saying €64 billion [in debt], and she said, 'it's closer to €120 billion'. That was a frightening situation – I couldn't sleep that night, I wondered was I mad taking this on.'
What I see is that they're dehumanising all of us. It's not just Gaza; they're making this standard acceptable. It's the depths of depravity
—
Des Geraghty
As it turned out, Geraghty remained on the board until 2019: 'I was confident enough in the period I was there that good decisions were made.' But while he says he learned a lot about banking, he still views economics on a human scale.
'Economic thinking tends to be dominated by classical economists, bankers, financiers, and they're all about the bottom line, but I've always argued that's a very narrow concept of economy,' he says. 'Every penny you give in social welfare is channelled into the economy – it's spent in the local shop, on clothes and books for school. Economy is about how people live, the bottle of milk that you buy in the morning.'
This chimes with his wider outlook. 'I like the slogan the Greens came up with: think globally, and act locally. We have to understand the world we live it, and act locally, with the sense of the community we're in.' But for all his idealism Geraghty is aware that not everyone shares his vision of a shared society.
'I found in housing [he was previously chairman of the Affordable Homes Partnership] that I was taken aback by objections to housing projects in local authorities,' he says. 'It usually was an objection to traffic, but at the end of the day people in secure houses are never that wild about new people coming in. So the real threat comes from people who are insecure, and the real problem in fascism is the people who are insecure. And that's egged on by people who have vested interests in that – Brexit was a classic example.'
Similarly, Geraghty is alive to the growth of anti-immigrant sentiment in Ireland. He understands some concerns about the impact of immigration in rural areas. 'I can see an ordinary, logical argument that the State needs to do better, without filling out the local hotels,' he says. 'But the basic thing is we have a responsibility to provide as best we can.'
Des Geraghty: 'I think that music, poetry and song was the anchor that kept the spirit of the Irish alive over centuries.' Photograph: Nick Bradshaw
He firmly believes Ireland has 'enormously benefited' from migration: his 2007 book 40 Shades of Green celebrated the contribution of immigrants, in line with his view of national identity as 'a jigsaw of many pieces'. 'We're a mosaic of these identities, and we shouldn't be afraid of them,' he says. 'We need to thrive on difference.'
These days, his activism is international in focus. He is vocal about Israel's destruction of Gaza, while calling out European inaction on the issue. 'What I see is that they're dehumanising all of us,' he says. 'It's not just Gaza; they're making this standard acceptable – Putin has done the same thing, bombing cities. It's the depths of depravity.'
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A father in Gaza: Our children are dying as the world watches. We don't want your pity – we want action
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Still, Geraghty sees reasons for hope. He lauds Ireland's 'communitarian instinct', evident in the charity sector and grass-roots action on patient rights and homelessness. Likewise, he remains inspired by Ireland's cultural life. 'Seán O'Casey said something very interesting, that culture is the way we live,' he observes. 'Culture isn't something out there, it has to be part of your own existence.'
It's advice Geraghty has always taken to heart, whether previously serving as chairman of Poetry Ireland or appearing this month at the Masters of Tradition festival in west Cork.
'I think that music, poetry and song was the anchor that kept the spirit of the Irish alive over centuries,' he says. 'Music can bring people closer to their own homeplace – pride of place is very important if we're going to deal with the environment – and it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive to anyone else.'
Such idealism speaks of Geraghty's principles, but also his personality. He cheerfully greets people who come up to him during our encounter, and even when discussing dark subjects, he looks on bright side.
'My optimism is rooted in my experience with human beings,' he says. 'I think human beings fundamentally have the potential to be either good or bad. We've the potential for humanity and greatness and creativity, or we can go down another road of dog-eat-dog and doing down other people, where you encourage all the worst features. I don't like competition as a philosophy. I think people are at their best when they're co-operating, when they're sharing, when they're not trying to beat other people.'
Des Geraghty appears in conversation with Martin Hayes at the West Cork Music Masters of Tradition festival on August 24th