The consortium had an ‘appetite' for SAAQ money, witness tells Gallant commission

CTV News

30-05-2025

A security agent strolls through the room where the Gallant hearing on the SAAQclic fiasco investigation is taking place. (Christinne Muschi/The Canadian Press)
The consortium of firms behind the development of the SAAQclic platform 'was hungry and wanted to be well fed by funds' from the Quebec auto insurance board (SAAQ).
That is the conclusion reached by Jérôme Verreault, a former financial controller at the Crown corporation, regarding the actions of the alliance formed by suppliers LGS, IBM and SAP.
Verreault testified on Thursday before the Gallant Commission, which is investigating the SAAQ's failed digital transition.
In notes dating from 2018 and 2019 and submitted to the commission, the controller detected certain shortcomings and laxity in the documentation relating to the alliance's invoicing. He made observations that, in his view, show the alliance's 'appetite for money.'
In particular, he noted the failure to comply with a clause in the contract providing for a 10 per cent deduction on the fees claimed by external firms. In its invoices, the consortium did not include these deductions, which were nevertheless applied by the SAAQ's IT project office, Verreault pointed out.
This clause was used to withhold a certain amount in the event of dissatisfaction with the project.
'This fact allowed me to see that the alliance was hungry and wanted to be very well fed by the funds of the Société de l'assurance automobile,' Verreault told commissioner Gallant.
He also cited a clause regarding the availability of external resources to resolve anomalies during the testing and deployment phases. A remuneration of $100 per 'availability slot' was provided for.
Verreault emphasized that the alliance was responsible for delivering a solution that worked. The clause, therefore, meant having to pay suppliers a second time in the event of problems, he said.
'My plumber came, he didn't do the job, I call him back and he charges me again by the hour,' Gallant illustrated.
Verreault said he never found any document mentioning or approving this rate by the alliance or the Crown corporation. He also criticized the SAAQ for failing to verify compliance with the contract and the accuracy of the invoicing.
Risk-sharing clause
As revealed by a former internal auditor last week, the hourly rate for certain resources rose from $82 to $350 per hour. Verrreault concluded that this change affected 26 consultants and could result in additional costs of $14 million annually.
To date, the reasons for this increase in the hourly rate remain 'unclear' to Verreault. The tasks or expertise of these resources were the same, he said.
In Verreault's view, it was clear that the alliance would not work at no cost, contrary to what the SAAQ management might have suggested, brandishing the 'risk sharing' clause initially included in the contract.
'The risk-sharing clause was not Voldemort. It was common knowledge. It was practically written on the walls at the Société d'assurance automobile,' said Verreault.
It should be noted that the SAAQ's technological modernization project, known as CASA, could cost at least $1.1 billion by 2027, which is $500 million more than expected, according to the Auditor General (AG).
Verreault was in office when the first phase of the CASA project was launched. It targeted the SAAQ's financial and human resources.
The controller described the start of this delivery as a 'disaster.'
Several problems arose and ended up annoying him.
'Sometimes, I didn't have kind words, which exasperated my colleagues. Sometimes I told them it was a bloody mess,' he said.
Verreault left the Crown corporation a few months after the first delivery began. He explained that his departure was due, in particular, to senior management's attitude towards his work.
'My notes were not taken seriously. (...) My role was precisely to help the company prevent (problems). But it was like a monkey: I don't want to hear anything, I don't want to see anything, I don't want to say anything,' lamented Verreault.
'Appearance of favouritism'
On Thursday afternoon, an SAAQ executive came to talk about part of the tendering process. Nicolas Vincent explained the various steps leading up to the selection of the consortium in 2017.
He acted as compliance coordinator for the 21 advisory committees, whose purpose was to advise the selection committee on specific aspects of the bids received.
His testimony highlighted that there was 'an appearance of favouritism' among some members of the advisory committees and 'a perception of favouritism towards one alliance' at a stage when three consortia were still in the running, according to a report from an advisory committee presented to the commission.
This seemed to 'lean toward' the SAP publisher, which belonged to two alliances at the time, Vincent said.
'There was a perception that some of those who had prepared the call for tenders were really favouring a SAP solution,' he added.
Some of these external consultants had led a project with an SAP solution at Hydro-Québec with Karl Malenfant, the SAAQ's vice-president of information technology at the time, Vincent pointed out.
While the selection committee remains independent, its thinking could be influenced by the notes from the advisory committees, Vincent said.
Publication ban
Earlier on Thursday, computer scientist Vincent Poirier, former auditor of the SAAQ, continued his testimony. He was called upon to comment on an information security audit report he produced in June 2023.
However, the content of the report and Poirier's comments are subject to a publication ban for the next few days. It covers 'any technical information or data identifying the cybersecurity and data protection architecture.'
According to the SAAQ, 'at this stage, the publication ban is necessary to ensure that information that could jeopardize the security and protection of Quebecers' data is not made public,' the order states.
This report by The Canadian Press was first published in French on May 30, 2025.