Antarctic security a concern for Canada, says top naval commander
Mapping Antarctica's ocean floor to reveal climate secrets
6 hours ago
Duration 2:29
Social Sharing
According to an international treaty, military vessels aren't allowed in Antarctica without a scientific objective. That's what the HMCS Margaret Brooke is currently doing in the southern polar region, supporting 15 Canadian climate scientists in their research.
Partway through its Antarctic expedition, the Margaret Brooke was joined by the navy's top commander, Vice-Admiral Angus Topshee. In an exclusive interview aboard the ship, Topshee spoke to the CBC's Susan Ormiston about why the Royal Canadian Navy would invest in this kind of mission, and why a scientific research expedition can serve to strengthen Canada's polar security.
Q: What initiated this mission all the way to Antarctica?
A: As I looked at what we were doing in the North, and in particular, what we were seeing our adversaries doing in the North, we realized that … we can see climate change in the North, we can see what China and Russia have been doing in and around the Canadian North, [and thinking] I wonder what's going on in the South Pole, and [can we] get the perspective and experience of the South American navies that are down here all the time. And so the genesis of this was, let's go get some hands-on experience. Let's have this deployment serve as a forcing function for us to get closer to the navies of South America that work in this polar region. Let's do some science, and see if we can figure out things that can help us better protect and defend our own North.
Q: Do you think there's a security concern here in Antarctica, as there is in the Arctic?
A: I definitely do. I am concerned that the whole agreement that we would not [militarize and mine Antarctica] … would, could change. And I don't think that's in our interest to allow that to change easily.
Q: You said it was your goal to find out what China's doing. So what have you found out?
A: So, I did not realize that the Russians had a base down here that was right beside the Chileans, and where exactly it was. And so, just by the simple fact of coming down here and appreciating how close all of these different operations are. And in the research in advance of coming down here, we realized that China is increasing their Antarctic footprint, and for us, what we really want to do is understand: is it the same type of scientific research that they're doing down here that we've seen them doing [in the North]? A lot of their research is dual-purpose, it obviously serves a military purpose as well as an economic and potentially a diplomatic purpose. So it's interesting to get a better sense of that.
Q: How does knowing what China or Russia are doing in Antarctica affect Canadians?
A: It's always easy, from a military point of view, to understand the capabilities of another nation in terms of the military. We can look at how many tanks they have, how many ships do they have, how many aircraft do they have. What's always harder to discern is intent. Countries will always say positive things … in fact, I've seen speeches by the Chinese defence minister that could have been given by our minister, because the language is the same. But the interpretation and meaning of the words can often be different. And so coming down here, seeing what they're doing, gives us a better understanding of their intent.
WATCH | What Canada's Navy is doing in Antarctica:
Canadian navy looks to South Pole for lessons about the North
2 days ago
Duration 2:03
Q: What do you think their intent is?
A: I don't know. I think Russia's made their intent pretty clear. So we've seen an increase in Russian capability in the Arctic. We've seen their illegal and unprovoked invasion in Ukraine. There's no doubt in my mind about Russia's intent. But I think China is something where there's some concerning indicators with how they've treated some of our aircraft when we've operated, some of the responses to our operations in the South China Sea. But on another level, I don't know that they're operating that differently from how we would operate if a Chinese task group came into Canadian waters. We would still go out with our ships and our aircraft to monitor what they were doing, just as they monitor what we do in their waters.
Q: How would you compare the security and sovereignty concerns in the Arctic and Antarctica?
A: The biggest difference is the Antarctic Treaty. So there's a whole idea that the countries of the world will co-operate and that there's no advantage to be gained by any country. Whereas the Arctic, really all of the areas are delineated already, [although] there's still some work to be done with some specific claims ... But I think the biggest difference is the fact that there is a competition already in the Arctic, we know that the resources in the Arctic can be challenged. And so what we need to do as Canada is continue to do what we've done, which is build the capacity to make sure we can understand everything that's happening in our Arctic and respond to make sure that our interests are protected.
Q: You've talked about an understaffed Navy. You've talked about old ships with long lives and the lack of modern ships. How do you defend an expenditure like this, to come thousands of kilometres down south from Canada and explore this part of the world?
A: Yeah, it's quite simple … we have seen the greatest increase in human prosperity since the Second World War because of peace that's been maintained at sea. Freedom of shipping around the world, and a desire to not have any choke points be stopped by different things. Whether it's piracy off the coast of Somalia, the actions of the Houthis in the Red Sea, and things like that. South American navies are a part of that solution as well. And so this ship, Margaret Brooke, is visiting just about every South American country on their way around, working with all of the key navies of the region to build partnerships and relationships. ... We have an interest in this region because if things are safe and secure here, it is to the benefit of everyone. And so I think this is a relatively small investment in the shared burden of continuing to make sure that the seas are free and open for all.
Q: What about this collaboration with scientists? They're all down there on the quarterdeck, working away, hoping that they get another chance to do something like this, with a vessel like this and the support they've had. Will this kind of co-pro continue?
A: I think this is the type of thing that would be worth doing every three to five years or so, to come down. You know, visit South America, visit Antarctica, to continue research. But honestly, we need to make sure that the … governments and organizations that these scientists come from … found value in this. And if Canada continues to think it's a worthwhile thing to do, then yeah, we should definitely do it again. … My feeling right now from having talked to the scientists and seeing the crew on board, and the knowledge that we've gained, I think it is worthwhile.
WATCH | No one owns Antarctica. Could that change?
No one owns Antarctica, but that agreement is showing cracks
7 days ago
Duration 7:52
Antarctica has been governed by a treaty of nations since 1959, but with rising geopolitical tensions and a shifting world order, that governance system is under pressure. From aboard an unprecedented Canadian mission to the frozen continent, CBC's Susan Ormiston explains what's at stake and how countries are angling for more control.
Q: I heard you talk about "this is a global navy." Some people wonder, how can we be a global navy? We're too small. China's making ships, they're the largest navy, ship-wise, in the world now.
A: Well, I'd love to have shipyards like China has. In fact … [South] Korea's yards would be fantastic. So we're building the fleet that we need right now, with the commitment from the government — the 15 river-class destroyers, the potential acquisition of 12 … submarines. We've got six ships in this class, we've got two tankers coming as well. So we are building the fleet that we require. ... So yeah, we might be a small navy, but we really have got global reach. In fact, HMCS Montreal last year did a round-the-world circumnavigation as part of its Indo-Pacific deployment.
A: My preference is that we avoid election promises around defence, because those tend to be negative promises. But no, I think no matter what government is elected, there's a pretty clear commitment by Canada that we need to spend more on defence and security, because the world is a dangerous place, and the oceans around Canada only protect [us] with a powerful navy.
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