Latest news with #Paco
Euractiv
27-06-2025
- Health
- Euractiv
Ireland's Sláintecare health reform risks mission creep, needs clearer vision
'Sláintecare can mean almost whatever we want it to mean,' said Professor Steve Thomas of Trinity College Dublin. 'There's a danger of mission creep,' he warned. Thomas, who helped draft the original Sláintecare report, said the reform risks losing coherence. At a healthcare policy conference on 25 June, Prof. Thomas called for a clearer vision of universal healthcare. 'We're still debating eligibility and entitlement eight years on,' he said. 'We need to pin down as quickly as possible our vision.' Sláintecare, Ireland's national healthcare reform programme, was launched in 2017 in response to long-standing issues in the country's health system. It aims to create a universal, single-tier health service where access to care is based on medical need rather than ability to pay. While digital health transformation is gathering pace, policymakers, clinicians and economists think the reforms must be more ambitious. They agree that digital advances must deliver better patient outcomes and improved value for money through a more robustly connected, data-driven healthcare system, but the system remains slow to change and fundamentally dysfunctional. Prof. Thomas urged policymakers to leverage crises as catalysts for reform. 'COVID was quite helpful in getting extra resources into the health system,' he said. 'But we must protect our workforce. We're expecting a lot from them.' Sláintecare, the country's flagship universal healthcare reform programme, still lacks a unifying vision in a shifting economic and digital landscape. The path forward is fraught with challenges, including fragmented systems, workforce shortages and demoralisation, and a lack of public engagement. From analogue to AI Ricardo Sampaio Paco, Service Improvement Lead at St James's Hospital, offered a compelling case study of how digital tools can transform hospital operations. 'At St James's Hospital, 80% of the discharges in the past were occurring after three in the afternoon,' he said. This bottleneck created a 'ripple effect' that delayed admissions and strained emergency departments. To address this, the hospital implemented a visual management system that digitised patient flow data and enabled real-time decision-making. 'It's now possible to see … for every patient what their estimated discharge is, the clinical criteria for discharge, the discharge destination and required onward care,' Paco explained. 'You can have this within five seconds after you get in contact with the screen.' The results were striking: a sharp reduction in late discharges, increased surgical throughput, and improved frailty assessments. 'We're now the best hospital for hip fracture care in Ireland,' Paco said, citing a leap from 7% to 70% compliance with national standards. General practice, the digital bedrock While hospitals are making strides, Dr Mike O'Callaghan, Clinical Lead at the Irish College of GPs, stressed that general practice remains the 'foundational' layer of Ireland's digital health ecosystem. 'General practice is where a lot of the volume happens,' he said, noting that GPs handle over 21.5 million consultations annually. 'Continuity of care is continuity of records and vice versa.' O'Callaghan warned against creating new digital silos. 'If everybody's in charge and there's patient information everywhere, then no one is in charge,' he said. 'We need to have a central repository of all this stuff so that we're all on the same page - including the patients.' He also highlighted the importance of maintaining and curating electronic medical records. 'It's not good enough to build a big, shiny system. You need to make sure that it's being maintained, because that's how patients are kept safe.' Telemedicine 2.0 Dr Victor Vicens, Chief Medical Officer at Abi Global Health, argued that traditional telemedicine has failed to deliver on its promise. 'Basically, what it did was put a camera in front of a doctor,' he said. 'The basic unit, which was doctor time, was not changed.' Abi Global Health is using AI to triage cases, allocate healthcare professionals, and monitor consultation quality. 'Next-generation telemedicine is omnichannel, on-demand and up to three times less costly,' Vicens said. 'This leads to better financial results and better health outcomes.' The economist's view Dr Jonathan Briody, a health economist at the Royal College of Surgeons in Ireland, framed digital health as a fiscal imperative. 'Digital health is not an optional thing anymore,' he said. 'It's integral to modern service delivery and group patient outcomes.' He pointed to the success of virtual wards, such as the one at St Vincent's Hospital, which has treated over 500 patients and saved nearly 4,000 bed days. 'Each hospital bed that we free by a safe virtual consultation provides another bed for someone who needs it,' he said. With the Health Service Executive's 2025 budget reaching €27 billion, Briody emphasised the shift toward value-based healthcare. 'We're measuring success not by the euro spent or services provided, but by the outcomes achieved per euro.' Trust, data and the public Despite the momentum, speakers acknowledged that public trust and digital literacy remain significant barriers. 'Patients are shocked when I can't see their medicines,' said O'Callaghan, referring to the lack of interoperability between GP and out-of-hours systems. 'Patients actually think our digital infrastructure is more cooked than it is.' Briody added that many patients are unaware they own their health data. 'They're shocked to learn that their data belongs to them. We're just mining it for them.' Vicens argued that public confidence hinges on transparency and evidence. 'Getting more confidence from the systems relies on doing what science has always done – publishing, providing reliable results, and reliable sources of evidence.' Inclusion and equity Digital exclusion was another recurring theme, particularly for older people and refugees. 'Six in ten older people in Ireland are not comfortable online,' said Vicky Harris, Head of Programmes at Age Action. 'Digital First, not Digital Only. Ensure quality services are maintained offline as well as online.' Dr Hanna Balytska, a Ukrainian doctor now working in Limerick, described how language barriers and outdated communication methods - such as postal letters - led to missed appointments among refugees. 'They always keep their telephone number. They always keep their email,' she said. 'So that's why even in English, if we send something in English, they can translate it.' Community care, the next frontier Margaret Curran, General Manager at Caredoc, showcased the SMILE programme, which uses wearable devices and remote monitoring to manage chronic conditions. 'It showed a 41% reduction in ED attendances, 44% reduction in bed night stays, and 87% reduction in unscheduled urgent GP visits,' she said. Curran emphasised the programme's cost-effectiveness. 'To manage 600 high-need patients, we have 4.5 whole-time equivalent triage nurses,' she said. 'It really pays for itself very early on.' Michelle O'Hagan, a community pharmacist in Tallaght, called for greater integration of pharmacy services. 'We are the cornerstone of healthcare,' she said. 'We can offer more clinical skills and reduce hospital admissions.' Ireland's digital health transformation is at a critical juncture. The tools, talent and political will are increasingly in place. But to deliver on the promise of Sláintecare, better care, better access, and better value, policymakers must ensure that digital innovation is inclusive, coherent, and grounded in the lived realities of patients and providers alike. The foundation of the new health era in Ireland has to be a highly effective, data-driven system. Without it, an ageing population and chronic disease will drain and break Ireland's capacity to care for its citizens, damaging the economy and democracy. By Brian Maguire
Yahoo
27-06-2025
- General
- Yahoo
Why Many Dogs Struggle to Learn Being Alone
Being left alone at home can be unfamiliar or even frightening for many dogs. Young or insecure dogs, in particular, quickly develop separation anxiety, which manifests through barking, whining, or even destructive behavior. This can become a burden, especially for single owners, as PETBOOK editor Dennis Agyemang knows from personal experience. A few weeks ago, I adopted my first dog, Paco. He comes from an international animal rescue and is still unfamiliar with many things: neither city life nor its noises, but he's coping bravely. However, he doesn't know how to be alone yet. So, I have to organize my daily life well at the moment. Someone always has to be there to watch him when I need to go shopping or to the doctor. Because being alone isn't an option yet. Taking out the trash has become a real challenge—and surely a sight for the neighbors—when I dash through the stairwell and communal garden with my trash bags at record speed before Paco barks down the whole house. He's quite loud, and my neighbors are noise-sensitive. In short, this can't go on in the long run. But the good news: With gradual training, patience, and the right preparation, any dog can learn to stay alone calmly and relaxed. That's what I hear from various dog trainers online. The key is for the dog to build trust in small steps and understand: 'Being alone doesn't mean anything bad—my human always comes back.' But why is being alone such a big deal for most dogs—at least initially? 'Dogs have a strong need for attachment. Once they have built trust, they want to stay with their social partner—and permanently,' explains dog psychologist Marc Ebersbach. Dogs perceive the absence of their owners not as temporary but as a loss of control. 'In nature, there's no situation where a pack member simply disappears, leaving the others behind. On the contrary, dogs follow when they need closeness.' As a dog psychologist, he often hears the comparison to earlier times when it was no big deal for dogs to be alone. 'The often-cited comparison with the farm falls short: There, the dog is sometimes alone, but never without stimuli. He hears cows, tractors, people. He's in the middle of life—that's calming.' In a city apartment, however, that's usually not the case, explains the dog psychologist. 'Doors and windows are closed, the dog is acoustically and visually isolated. No stimuli, no orientation—he perceives the absence not as temporary but as a loss of control.' For the dog, often a big shock. 'The result: The dog is stressed, often panicked—and in stress, he can't learn. When I come back after five minutes, he can't store the experience as a positive one. That's the core of the problem.' But simply playing sounds against the silence in the apartment is not a cure-all, explains dog trainer Katharina Marioth. 'Of course, it's sensible not to make the apartment completely 'dead'—so leave windows open, play a radio station with soft music or TV noise—the main thing is that there's some kind of stimulus. Because for dogs, being alone is inherently unnatural.' The concentration of scent drops particularly sharply within the first 30 minutes after the person leaves. 'That's the crucial moment. In this phase, it often decides whether the dog relaxes or panics,' says Marioth. Many make the mistake of directly training being alone, says Marc Ebersbach. 'But that doesn't work—the dog must first learn that spatial separation is not negative.' Therefore, he works with structured 'stay' training. 'The dog first learns to stay in a defined place while I move away—visibly. First spatially, then temporally. I work a lot with body language: hand forward, clear signals, repeated confirmation. This way, he learns step by step to endure distance and experiences the separation in a controlled and stress-free way.' Only then can the dog learn that being alone is not threatening, explains the dog psychologist. He managed to take away his dog's fear, who was traumatized by previous owners who often left her alone for hours, through stay training. 'With the stay training, she gradually learned to detach from me,' says Ebersbach. It was crucial that he worked through space, not prohibition. 'I didn't tell her: 'You must not follow me,' but: 'This space is now yours—please stay there.' That's a difference dogs understand.' It's important to proceed gently with training and not to overwhelm the dog, warns Katharina Marioth in the PETBOOK interview. 'The biggest mistake is believing that being alone is about control or 'pushing the dog away.' That's complete nonsense. It's about learning—and learning security in a completely unnatural situation.' Many dog owners make the mistake of quickly closing the door and leaving the dog alone without mentally preparing him first, says the dog trainer. Training based solely on commands or punishment doesn't work, Marioth knows. 'Because if the dog is in panic, no 'sit' or 'stay' helps. We have to train the first 30 minutes when the dog loses his orientation. Ignoring this condemns the dog to constant stress.' That's not a sign of 'bad obedience,' but of being overwhelmed, warns the trainer. 'You have to see being alone as a process that must be learned step by step—with a lot of patience and careful observation. And you must not treat it as a one-time command but as a real challenge for the dog, which you systematically build up with stimuli and short absences.' Stimulus Decoupling:Put on a jacket and shoes several times a day to erase expectations. Open/close the door without leaving—this removes the ritual's significance. Relaxation before training:Daily targeted body massage at the resting place with a drop of lavender oil for 5–10 minutes. This releases oxytocin—a hormone that promotes relaxation. Build 'Stay' training:Keep the dog in place with clear body language. Initially move away for only a few seconds, gradually increase—but always stay within the success range. Reinforcement through ritual:Begin and end each exercise with a long massage. In between, short touches as a reward. At the end, give a chew item to reduce stress. Observation with a camera:Leave the apartment only when your dog is relaxed—and return before he shows signs of stress. Only then can he store positive learning experiences. Start training in the evening:Begin exercises in the evening when the dog is tired—this lowers the arousal threshold and makes learning easier. It's always important to consider that being alone is not natural for dogs, emphasizes dog trainer Katharina Marioth. 'Being alone is a human invention. No dog is made to be alone for hours.' Therefore, the first half-hour after the person leaves is the most important training phase. 'During this time, the human's scent is strongest, and the dog still feels 'connected.'' Here, you must work positively, such as with special food toys or calming rituals. Additionally, regular massages, linked with scent anchors like lavender oil or even the administration of CBD oil, can help the dog relax, says dog psychologist Marc Ebersbach. It's important to discuss the latter with the treating veterinarian beforehand. 'Anyone who simply pushes their dog away without allowing this learning phase shouldn't be surprised if the dog goes crazy. That has nothing to do with a loss of control but with a completely missing learning opportunity,' Katharina Marioth concludes. The post Why Many Dogs Struggle to Learn Being Alone appeared first on PETBOOK.
Scottish Sun
01-05-2025
- Entertainment
- Scottish Sun
My dad supported me from day one… I'd like to honour his spirit by keeping going, says Billy Nomates on third album
Find out what inspired Billy Nomates to create a concept album about a dilapidated old funfair BILLY IDOL My dad supported me from day one… I'd like to honour his spirit by keeping going, says Billy Nomates on third album Click to share on X/Twitter (Opens in new window) Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window) THE idea for Billy Nomates' third album Metalhorse came after a 'personal and tumultuous' time in her life. Firstly, Billy Nomates — stage name of Leicester-born, Bristol-based songwriter, producer and multi-instrumentalist Tor Maries — was beginning to tire of the music industry circus. Sign up for the Entertainment newsletter Sign up 6 Making her new album has been an emotional rollercoaster for Tor Maries, who performs under the name Billy Nomates Credit: Supplied 6 The death of her father Peter helped Maries shape her new album Metalhorse, which is out on May 16 Credit: Supplied Then, just as she was about to start recording, her beloved dad Peter died from Parkinson's, a year after diagnosis. Both problems fed into Metalhorse — a concept album of sorts about a dilapidated old funfair. Maries explains: 'The concept came from feeling like I was in quite the fairground of life. 'It came from riffing on an idea that a chapter of my life, the industry I work in and politically, it felt like an absolute circus and I don't mean a good one. 'I felt like this fairground wasn't thriving and quite difficult to get on. Sometimes when you're on a ride and see the bolts are coming off you wonder if it's safe? I resonated with it and tapped into it.' But the big influence was the death of Peter Maries, who was hugely supportive of his daughter's work, last summer. 'It's not an option to wallow in self-pity' He died just before she travelled to Paco Loco Studio in Seville, Spain, to begin recording Metalhorse. 'He was the best dad I could have possibly hoped for,' she says proudly. 'He taught music but he was a quiet artist in himself. He found very beautiful things in life and in all the things he did. 'My dad supported me from day one and saw something in me that I didn't see in myself. And so to be here with what is my best work, it must be dedicated to him. 'I'd started the record before he died and he knew it was called Metalhorse — he'd heard demos so my soul was good with it. And it's very much dedicated to him and his memory.' Multiple Sclerosis explained Chatting to Maries in a video call from her kitchen she says she is thankful to have inherited a love of music from her dad and his advice is a constant. 'It's a gift he has given me,' she says smiling. 'And it's nice because it never goes away and it never turns down. Now he's gone, if anything, the volume of him is so loud — he's so present. He was the best dad I could have possibly hoped for. He taught music but he was a quiet artist in himself. He found very beautiful things in life and in all the things he did. 'I'd like to honour his spirit by keeping going. It's not an option to wallow in self-pity — it's time to do things. It's time to honour the life that he has given me.' Maries, whose dad was a massive punk fan, was inspired to start making music after seeing Sleaford Mods perform. She got the name Billy Nomates from a jibe after no one turned up to one of her early gigs. The singer was recently diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis. She says: 'I've been diagnosed with the relapse remitting type, and I'm on a course of treatment that works really well. So, I have a lot of hope.' The fantastic album closer Moon Explodes is a song written just after Maries had been diagnosed with MS. She says: 'It came off the back of a completely relentless year, and I was just thinking, this is just it. 'But getting the diagnosis made sense in a lot of ways. A couple of years ago, I started performing barefoot and people thought it was me trying to be all hippy and cool, but it was because I was losing my balance in shoes. 'I'd also noticed the dexterity in my hands occasionally would come and go when I was playing. I was relieved to be diagnosed, because, you know when something is up. 'Fifteen years ago, you'd be worried about becoming disabled but there's been a lot of advances in where MS medication is going and that gives me hope. 'Loved the idea of her being so fearless' 'Recently I was reading about the twin sisters Laviai and Lina Nielsen who won medals at the Paris Olympics with MS and I thought it meant the Paralympics but it was the actual Olympics. 'The only pressure of getting the diagnosis is that I need to stay super fit which I wasn't planning to do before my diagnosis.' Maries' positivity can be heard throughout the album Metalhorse. 6 The singer was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis during the creation of her new album Credit: Supplied 6 Working with her hero Hugh Cornwell of The Stranglers was a special moment for Maries, who talks of her late dad's love for the band Credit: Redferns Brilliant first single The Test is about 'working against the odds' and has been a huge radio hit. She says: 'The song is loosely based on Yvonne Stagg, a female Wall Of Death rider who I was reading about. 'She had a tumultuous life, falling in and out of love and was an alcoholic but she became very good at the Wall Of Death. 'I was thinking about her life in the 1960s when women didn't do things like motorbike stunts — there's the sound of a motorbike in the song — and I loved the idea of her being so fearless, but it was also a test of life.' Gorgeous ballad Strange Gift is another special song that brings hope. Maries says: 'I wrote that song when I was in Spain. I had a guitar and started strumming one night. Strange Gift was important to put on the album because I like how it made me feel. It's about what's left when people are gone "It was very much inspired by dad's passing and Metalhorse is about things crumbling and not being as they were. 'Strange Gift was important to put on the album because I like how it made me feel. It's about what's left when people are gone. 'I call it a 'strange gift' because you don't want it, you really want the person to still be there. 'But what you are left with is a profound understanding of life that wasn't afforded to you before. You can only get that on this side of something awful.' Another standout on Metalhorse is Life's Unfair, which introduces the second side of the album. New single Plans is, says Maries: 'Enjoying life because it is over too fast.' She adds: 'I like the idea that life is a ride and you're going to get off it at some point. Even though the world is awful, there's still those two minutes to get on a Waltzer and have fun being flung around. 'So, we must all fall in love, develop friendships and go wild as these things disappear from our lives quickly. It's important to grab a hold of those moments and go 'F**k it' — I'm going to enjoy myself.' A special moment making Metalhorse came when she got to work with hero Hugh Cornwell of The Stranglers, who her dad had been a huge fan of — he was buried in a Stranglers T-shirt. Maries explains: 'I was in the studio and I told my producer James Trevascus that I was going to sing Dark Horse Friend in the style of Hugh Cornwell because I really love his voice and he's the voice of my childhood. 'Then someone said. 'Oh he's here tomorrow!' 'By the next day I'd written lyrics for him. 'He was absolutely lovely and it was so nice for him to sing on that track. We went for dinner afterwards so I think the stars were aligned for that track.' Metalhorse is the first album Maries has made as a 'band' working with drummer Liam Chapman and bassist Mandy Clarke. She says: 'I'm still very much a solo artist. But I worked with a band on this record. I still write and demo everything — I'm not ready to let go of that part yet and I still need to be in the driving seat for many things. 'But it was a great experience to share and to invite people in because whenever I'm creating something, there is very much a police line around me saying 'Do not cross'. 'I'm inevitably changed forever' 'But I allowed a few people to come in and I learned loads as a writer.' With the album released next week, Maries is looking forward to getting out and touring later in the year. 'I can't wait,' she says excitedly. 'It's been a long time coming. The album was written this time last year, so we've been waiting for this moment to get it out and get on the road. "We're going to be up and down the UK and Scotland and we've got European dates as well. I'm also performing on Later . . . With Jools Holland on May 25, which is cool. When you're first starting out, it's very important to be successful and to reach milestones but that's not what I'm about 'It's an honour to be able to play Later . . . as it's something I've watched throughout my teens and twenties and where I've discovered some of my favourite new artists. 'The last couple of years I've experienced life in a completely new way. Everything I've been through means I'm inevitably changed forever. 6 Metalhorse is the first album Maries has made as a 'band' working with drummer Liam Chapman and bassist Mandy Clarke Credit: Supplied 'I don't sweat the small stuff as much and I'm very clear about what I want to do as an artist. 'I want to write songs and make interesting work, and anything else is by the by. 'When you're first starting out, it's very important to be successful and to reach milestones but that's not what I'm about. 'Now I want to survive enough to keep making interesting work. And that's what Metalhorse is.' 6 Billy Nomates' new album Metalhorse is out on 16 May with a UK tour to follow in September and October Credit: Supplied BILLY NOMATES Metalhorse ★★★★★
IOL News
30-04-2025
- General
- IOL News
TEARS Animal Rescue seeks community support for Feed Hungry Pets Programme
Paco the dog after he was rescued from hunger and neglect and fed and taken care of Image: TEARS In a heartfelt plea for assistance, TEARS Animal Rescue, a non-profit organisation based in Cape Town, is reaching out to the community to help bolster its essential Feed Hungry Pets Programme. This initiative provides critical support to families in low-income areas who are grappling with the harsh reality of pet food insecurity. As food prices continue to rise, many families find themselves facing the difficult choice of feeding their pets or their loved ones. Unfortunately, it is often the loyal dogs who bear the brunt of this tough decision, while cats tend to rely on their instincts to hunt and scavenge—strategies that can be dangerous and insufficient in urban environments. This is not merely a story of neglect; it is a heartbreaking narrative of love overshadowed by economic hardship. This is what Paco the dog looked like when he was rescued by TEARS animal rescue Image: TEARS The Feed Hungry Pets Programme is designed precisely to address this urgent problem. It provides supplemental feeding that ensures beloved pets receive the nutrition they need to stay healthy and in their homes where they are cherished. Many families are faced with the gut-wrenching prospect of surrendering their pets when they are unable to provide adequate food; for these pet owners, letting go is a last aims to keep families together by tackling pet food insecurity, the leading cause of pet surrender in low-income communities. Video Player is loading. Play Video Play Unmute Current Time 0:00 / Duration -:- Loaded : 0% Stream Type LIVE Seek to live, currently behind live LIVE Remaining Time - 0:00 This is a modal window. Beginning of dialog window. Escape will cancel and close the window. Text Color White Black Red Green Blue Yellow Magenta Cyan Transparency Opaque Semi-Transparent Background Color Black White Red Green Blue Yellow Magenta Cyan Transparency Opaque Semi-Transparent Transparent Window Color Black White Red Green Blue Yellow Magenta Cyan Transparency Transparent Semi-Transparent Opaque Font Size 50% 75% 100% 125% 150% 175% 200% 300% 400% Text Edge Style None Raised Depressed Uniform Dropshadow Font Family Proportional Sans-Serif Monospace Sans-Serif Proportional Serif Monospace Serif Casual Script Small Caps Reset restore all settings to the default values Done Close Modal Dialog End of dialog window. Advertisement Next Stay Close ✕ 'We're appealing to the public to help us assist these families and their pets,' said Mandy Store, Operations Manager of TEARS. 'We all love our pets, so we can imagine how devastating it must be to give them up or watch them go hungry. Supplemental feeding supports families who are really struggling and helps keep loved pets in loving homes.' TEARS's mission goes beyond mere sustenance; it also ensures that shelter space remains available for animals that are truly neglected and in dire need of rescue, treatment, rehabilitation, and care. By keeping loved pets in their homes, the organisation can focus on providing for animals that cannot fend for themselves.
Business Insider
25-04-2025
- Entertainment
- Business Insider
Joe's fate in the 'You' series finale and that 'cheeky' final scene, explained by the showrunners
Warning: Major spoilers ahead for season five of Netflix's "You." Joe Goldberg got the ending that he's long deserved. Netflix's hit thriller series " You," which stars Penn Badgley as Joe, a romantic at heart with a penchant for repeatedly murdering in the name of love, released its final season on Thursday. The 10-episode fifth season is a culmination of years of Joe narrowly escaping real consequences for his actions. But now, he's finally locked up for good thanks to the efforts of a new character named Louise Flannery (Madeline Brewer), a woman who dupes Joe into falling in love with her through a carefully curated persona known as Bronte. In a spoiler-filled discussion with Business Insider, co-showrunners, executive producers, and writers Michael Foley and Justin W. Lo explained Joe's fate and why death would be "too easy" a conclusion, why Badgley wanted audiences to see Joe at his "most horrific" in the bloody finale, and the "cheeky" way the last scene winks at fans' complicity. Michael Foley: Penn always gets an early draft and gives us his thoughts and sometimes jumps on the phone with us. He's very communicative on set in prep about the episode that he's filming. Obviously, he has such a great handle on his character that it is really just about honing in on things. But in this final season, the goal, as you hopefully witnessed in the finale, was that we see Joe Goldberg at his worst. And that was really important to Penn, that he was at his most horrific. He wanted to help us in our mission to have everybody stop and see him be so horrific that we all have to question what we just co-signed for all this time and sort of burst the delusion that he's a rootable hero. So, that was really important to him. That's why he's in his boxers in the rain and that's why he's punching a woman for the first time. We usually cut away from the violence. We just wanted it to get really nasty and awful. And he was very much leading the charge in that regard. He's like, do not pull punches with this guy. I want him in the end to just be a monster. Episode seven is when people finally start turning on him a bit, and we see characters from his past come out of the woodwork, like Annika, Ethan, and Paco. Who else was on your bucket list of people that you wanted to bring back, but it didn't work out? Justin W. Lo: I'm trying to think who else we wanted. I think we got mostly everyone we wanted to be in that montage. We did this thing in the writer's room where we put a list of people who would be pro-Joe, against Joe, and sort of neutral, and then we brainstormed what they would be saying about him. One of our favorites was Paco, of course, because Paco is pro-Joe, but what he says ends up screwing Joe over in a major way. So, that was one of our favorite discoveries. I was surprised not to see Jenna Ortega's character, Ellie. I feel like she would've been such a fun fit in there. Was she one of the people that you tried to get? Foley: That was complicated by the fact that she's doing "Wednesday" in Ireland and it just seemed like a non-starter. We just couldn't figure out a way to make it work. If Ellie was in that montage, what side would she have been on? Lo: Oh, pro-Joe [ laughs ]. Well, I think... hmm. It's a good question. It could have gone either way. You could make an argument for pro-Joe, because he was there for her during a very difficult time in her life. But you could also say, I think Ellie's very smart and she probably knows that he had something to do with her sister's death, even though it was Love. So she could have turned against him as well. Who came up with the idea for Bronte to shoot Joe in the penis, and what does that add to the punishment that Joe deservedly got in the final season? Lo: Greg Berlanti came up with the idea for the dick shot, and it was symbolic. Everybody, Penn, the showrunners, Greg, Sera [Gamble], we all wanted to make sure that Joe was taken down and no longer a romantic or sexual icon. And so that is the best way to do that. Couldn't get more pointed than that. In that moment when Bronte pulls the gun on him and he begs her to kill him, was he genuinely OK with dying at her hands in that moment, or was he just bluffing? Foley: She's suggesting that he's going to have to face what he really is, and that means he's going to sit in a courtroom, he's going to hear testimony of people who lost loved ones to Joe Goldberg, and that would break the delusion that he's a white knight and a good guy, and he couldn't handle that. So he was actually in that moment choosing death and hoping for death. And both Louise and we, the writers, thought that death was too easy, that we needed to put him in a veritable cage, and he needed to live on without knowing the feeling of a lover's touch, without his freedom, et cetera. Foley: The specifics of it, in terms of him being in prison and living, were things that we worked out pretty late in the final season. But in terms of him A) not getting away with it, B) not being redeemed, C) facing loved ones or people who he wronged, all of that was known early on, going into the season, if not a season or two earlier. We just didn't know the actual shape it would take. What was the conversation like with Penn when you mapped out the specifics of that final scene and his ending? Foley: There's a single line that Louise says to him, which is that "the fantasy of a man like you is how we cope with the reality of a man like you." That's the most important line this season for us, if not in the series, and he was a big fan of that line. He liked that it was the closest we were going to come to just sort of really stating our message, if you will. So yeah, we were all completely on the same page about Joe's condemnation, Joe's end. In the final scene, Joe's reading a creepy letter and he's still delusional and putting the blame on other people. It kind of felt like a little nod to the fans who thirsted over Joe this whole time, despite him being a murderer. What was the message you were trying to convey in that scene? Lo: We were trying to convey that Joe will never take responsibility for anything that he's done, that he always has to blame someone, and in this case, it's society, and he's speaking to us. It's a cheeky way to show that we have been complicit and he's turning against us in this one moment. We have been with him, in his voiceover part of his thought processes, in the whole series. And in this moment, he turns against us and blames us, the society, for creating him and for loving him. In the past, the female leads of the show have not fared well, but Louise, Kate, and Marienne all get their happy endings. Why was it important for the series to end with these women not being casualties? Foley: The entire run of the series, yes, there is Joe getting what Joe needs to get, in terms of killing for love. And then sometimes the killing can just seem bleak, and we want to entertain, and we don't want to lose our audience. And so it felt like with Kate, she had earned her absolution and her redemption, being willing to die by going back down to the basement to kill Joe. That's why we kept her alive, but it just didn't feel additive to kill. We don't want to kill people just for killing's sake. I would just say that Louise, in the end, keeping her alive was very important to us because we wanted the show to end with a woman's voice. Like, yes, we add this coda with Joe where he says, "It's not my fault, it's yours." But the real ending of the show is a woman having a voice and having agency, and Louise walking out of that bookstore and saying, "Joe Goldberg is not going to write my story. I'm going to define who I am." That was very important to us. Beck is such an important part of this whole season, and it brings the show full circle. What was it like pitching that to Elizabeth Lail and getting her back for a couple of scenes? Lo: The Beck storyline always brings tears to my eyes because it is so deep. And I say that Beck really got a raw deal in season one and she didn't do anything to deserve what she got. And she has been that symbol of innocence that got marred this whole series, really. So, it felt fitting to be able to give her justice. And that's why I think that the connection to Bronte was so powerful. You can feel it all through the season as soon as we learn the connection between them in that fifth episode. [Elizabeth] loved it. She was so excited to be part of the final season and she loves this character, too. So it was very meaningful for her to be able to be such a big part of the end of Joe Goldberg's story. Foley: I think it would've started to get repetitive and we would've been going to this same well in many ways, narratively. I don't know a single person in the writer's room who felt like, "Oh, if only we had one more season, we could tell this story or that story." I think we are really happy that we brought it full circle. Rarely do TV writer-producers get to finish the story. And we got to, we did it in a satisfying way, we got to bring it back to New York. So as a viewer and as a writer, I don't have an appetite for more, but it's only because I'm so sated. I'm very satisfied with how this story was told. Lo: I hope they're very satisfied. I see a lot of stuff online about like, "This show will have to end with Joe either in prison or dead." A lot of people are saying that, and so I'm really curious to see what they will think of the ending, which is, of course, he's not dead, but he is shot. And I guess there are some people who want him to get away with it. I am excited to see what they have to say the most, because we did not let him get away with it. Foley: We won't escape unscathed, and that's fine. People really hated that the character Love had to die. And guess what? I loved writing that character. I loved being on set with Victoria Pedretti, who's incredibly talented, but what was best for the story was where the story went. So, hopefully, if people can be objective, they could say this was the right way and the best way to end it. And if not, then all the power to 'em. This interview has been edited and condensed for length and clarity.
