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STV News
7 days ago
- Health
- STV News
Emails discussing nurse probe should not have been written, Peggie tribunal told
Emails between witnesses discussing an investigation into a gender critical nurse who was suspended following a dispute with a transgender doctor 'should not have been written', a consultant told a tribunal. Sandie Peggie was suspended after she complained about having to share a changing room with transgender medic Dr Beth Upton at Victoria Hospital, Kirkcaldy, Fife, on Christmas Eve 2023. She was placed on special leave after Dr Upton made an allegation of bullying and harassment and cited concerns about 'patient care'. Ms Peggie has lodged a claim against NHS Fife and Dr Upton, citing the Equality Act 2010, including sexual harassment; harassment related to a protected belief; indirect discrimination; and victimisation. The tribunal resumed in Dundee on July 16 after an initial set of hearings in February. On Tuesday, Dr Kate Searle, an emergency medicine consultant, gave evidence and denied 'deliberately concealing' an email sent on January 5, 2024, by fellow consultant Maggie Currer, which included six potential witnesses plus Dr Upton. A judicial order was made in January by the tribunal, however documentation emerged during the hearings in February and an IT trawl was commissioned which Dr Searle said all clinicians involved complied with. Barrister Naomi Cunningham, representing Ms Peggie, said: 'I want to suggest you deliberately concealed it to conceal wrongdoing of colleagues.' Dr Searle said: 'It would be dishonest to do that and I'm a doctor who acts as honestly as I can at all times.' In her evidence, Dr Searle said that she had no concerns about Dr Upton's allegations as the General Medical Council requires 'honesty and integrity'. However, she said she was 'never informed' that a referral to the Nursing and Midwifery Council had been made, the tribunal heard. She said that she emailed Dr Upton with others included later in January to give an 'update' on the investigation. But during cross-examination, Dr Searle admitted 'that we should not have written these things in a group email to witnesses'. Ms Cunningham said the email on January 5, 2024, was 'seriously embarrassing to the respondents' and said it 'appears to be an intention to set up and co-ordinate a group who should not be talking about this as they're witnesses'. She added: 'It says 'information must not be shared outside this group as risk of foot in mouth syndrome – it is quite a serious risk of foot in mouth syndrome'.' Dr Searle said: 'I can appreciate that in hindsight we should not have written these things in a group email to witnesses.' Ms Cunningham quoted from Dr Upton's evidence, including that using female changing rooms was 'a thing I have been instructed to be the most appropriate', and describing biological sex as a 'nebulous dog whistle'. Dr Searle denied telling the junior doctor to use female facilities, and said: 'Definitely no instructions were given.' She agreed that biological sex was 'significant', but when the term 'nebulous dog whistle' was put to her, she denied knowing what it meant. Ms Cunningham said: 'I think it must follow that anyone who describes biological sex as a 'nebulous dog whistle' would be talking obvious nonsense.' Dr Searle said: 'I'm not sure what that means.' The witness said she emailed Equalities lead Isla Bumba on December 8, 2023 as Dr Upton felt 'uncomfortable' about Ms Peggie 'self-excluding' from the female changing room, but said she 'didn't recall' raising the possibility of taking it further, as mentioned in an internal investigation. She said she Googled policies around self-identification, and added: 'I'm not a law expert – if you Google it, it comes up under Equality Act, there are many references to toilets and changing rooms. I subsequently emailed Isla Bumba who is much more expert in Equalities than me. She agreed there is no policy.' The consultant denied that she perceived self-exclusion as 'misbehaviour'. Dr Searle said: 'We would have discussed it if Dr Upton was very uncomfortable and it was affecting them'. She said a discussion would have involved 'compassion and kindness', but added: 'It doesn't sound otherwise like there's anything to take further.' Ms Cunningham said: 'At the time you discussed it with Dr Upton you considered this to be misbehaviour, she (Ms Peggie) was behaving badly and making him feel uncomfortable.' However, Dr Searle said: 'Beth felt uncomfortable that Sandie appeared to not want to engage.' Ms Cunningham said: 'My question was: both you and he regarded Sandie's conduct in removing herself a form of misbehaviour?' Dr Searle said: 'I don't agree we would have classed it as misbehaviour.' Ms Cunningham said: 'I think you've already confirmed that email to Isla Bumba on December 8 was prompted by a conversation about Sandie removing herself from the changing room when he was there, that's right? 'You ask if there's any policies around transgender staff and suggest Dr Upton might be keen to help develop some; is it fair for the tribunal to infer the possibility of developing policies to make it easier for Dr Upton to take matters further?' Dr Searle said: 'No, I don't agree. I think there needs to be an NHS Fife policy on how everyone can feel comfortable in changing areas of their choosing.' The tribunal continues. Get all the latest news from around the country Follow STV News Scan the QR code on your mobile device for all the latest news from around the country
North Wales Chronicle
7 days ago
- Health
- North Wales Chronicle
Consultant believed dispute over female changing rooms ‘was hate incident'
Sandie Peggie was suspended after she complained about having to share a changing room with transgender medic Dr Beth Upton at Victoria Hospital, Kircaldy, Fife, on Christmas Eve 2023. She was placed on special leave after Dr Upton made an allegation of bullying and harassment and cited concerns about 'patient care'. Ms Peggie has lodged a claim against NHS Fife and Dr Upton, citing the Equality Act 2010, including sexual harassment; harassment related to a protected belief; indirect discrimination; and victimisation. The tribunal resumed in Dundee on July 16 after an initial set of hearings in February. On Tuesday, Dr Kate Searle, a consultant in emergency medicine, said that Dr Upton was 'very open' about their trans status during a job interview, and had been out for around a year in August 2023, the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said that she had known Ms Peggie during her 11-year career at NHS Fife but was unaware of her gender critical views, and had asked Dr Upton 'if she was happy using female changing rooms' in August 2023 during an induction and 'didn't make any other suggestions'. She said she emailed equality lead Isla Bumba on December 8 2023 to ask if NHS Fife had a transgender policy but was told it did not. Dr Searle said: 'I asked her if she was happy using female changing rooms, she said yes, I had nothing else to add.' She said she emailed Ms Bumba as 'we've got our first transgender doctor working, there's very little information available', hoping there would be an NHS Fife policy on 'supporting transgender staff in their workplace', the tribunal heard. On her return to work after Christmas, on December 29 2023, Dr Searle read an email from Dr Elspeth Pitt regarding an 'upsetting interaction with another member of staff' and an email from Dr Upton from Christmas Day, alleging Ms Peggie had told her 'she can't be in the female changing room, it's wrong and lots of others feel this way' and 'she continued to tell me she is intimidated, she told me women have a right to feel safe', and made a comment about 'prisons', the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said: 'To me that was likening the situation to the Isla Bryson case that was very well publicised. Isla Bryson was a convicted rapist who was housed temporally in a female prison.' She said she was 'very concerned' and 'knew there wasn't an NHS Fife policy', adding that 'according to the hate incident policy it is verbal harassment', the tribunal heard. She said she had a meeting with Dr Upton at 5pm who was 'shaken and distressed', and they completed a Datix internal report together. Dr Searle said: 'We looked at NHS Fife's hate incident policy and recognised this required a Datix to be completed, so we completed that together, we discussed reporting the incident to the police as that's again what is recommended in NHS Fife policy. 'Beth said she would think about it, we looked at her shift patterns to see when she was next due to be in and if she felt safe to do that.' She added that Dr Upton 'mentioned two other incidents she had had with Sandie where she had felt the interaction was affected by Ms Peggie's feelings towards her as a transgender woman', and alleged that in one incident in a resuscitation unit 'Ms Peggie was doing nursing obs (observations) on a patient; when Beth walked in Ms Peggie left. Beth said 'do you want me to finish doing obs?', Ms Peggie said 'you can finish doing them yourself', and left the room', the tribunal heard. She alleged that another incident involved a patient in a suspected mental health crisis leaving, and said that when Dr Upton went to look for Ms Peggie, the nurse 'would only speak to her through another member of nursing staff', the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said: 'That would make me somewhat concerned for patient safety; in our team we need to communicate very well between ourselves to ensure patient safety.' She said she had spoken to the healthcare worker, and added: 'I asked if she recalled the situation and she was concerned about getting involved in any discussions about the incident because she said 'I am mixed race and I am worried about getting involved in this for my own safety'.' Counsel for both respondents, Jane Russell KC, said: 'What do you think she meant?' Dr Searle said: 'This legal case where there is a lot of press attention and any staff being involved in the case have felt under scrutiny and concerned that their views will be widely publicised when they wouldn't otherwise.' She said she completed the Datix as 'NHS staff must record all hate incidents' and added: 'We talked about reporting to the police, that's mentioned for hate incidents.' The tribunal continues.
Rhyl Journal
23-07-2025
- Health
- Rhyl Journal
Consultant believed dispute over female changing rooms ‘was hate incident'
Sandie Peggie was suspended after she complained about having to share a changing room with transgender medic Dr Beth Upton at Victoria Hospital, Kircaldy, Fife, on Christmas Eve 2023. She was placed on special leave after Dr Upton made an allegation of bullying and harassment and cited concerns about 'patient care'. Ms Peggie has lodged a claim against NHS Fife and Dr Upton, citing the Equality Act 2010, including sexual harassment; harassment related to a protected belief; indirect discrimination; and victimisation. The tribunal resumed in Dundee on July 16 after an initial set of hearings in February. On Tuesday, Dr Kate Searle, a consultant in emergency medicine, said that Dr Upton was 'very open' about their trans status during a job interview, and had been out for around a year in August 2023, the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said that she had known Ms Peggie during her 11-year career at NHS Fife but was unaware of her gender critical views, and had asked Dr Upton 'if she was happy using female changing rooms' in August 2023 during an induction and 'didn't make any other suggestions'. She said she emailed equality lead Isla Bumba on December 8 2023 to ask if NHS Fife had a transgender policy but was told it did not. Dr Searle said: 'I asked her if she was happy using female changing rooms, she said yes, I had nothing else to add.' She said she emailed Ms Bumba as 'we've got our first transgender doctor working, there's very little information available', hoping there would be an NHS Fife policy on 'supporting transgender staff in their workplace', the tribunal heard. On her return to work after Christmas, on December 29 2023, Dr Searle read an email from Dr Elspeth Pitt regarding an 'upsetting interaction with another member of staff' and an email from Dr Upton from Christmas Day, alleging Ms Peggie had told her 'she can't be in the female changing room, it's wrong and lots of others feel this way' and 'she continued to tell me she is intimidated, she told me women have a right to feel safe', and made a comment about 'prisons', the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said: 'To me that was likening the situation to the Isla Bryson case that was very well publicised. Isla Bryson was a convicted rapist who was housed temporally in a female prison.' She said she was 'very concerned' and 'knew there wasn't an NHS Fife policy', adding that 'according to the hate incident policy it is verbal harassment', the tribunal heard. She said she had a meeting with Dr Upton at 5pm who was 'shaken and distressed', and they completed a Datix internal report together. Dr Searle said: 'We looked at NHS Fife's hate incident policy and recognised this required a Datix to be completed, so we completed that together, we discussed reporting the incident to the police as that's again what is recommended in NHS Fife policy. 'Beth said she would think about it, we looked at her shift patterns to see when she was next due to be in and if she felt safe to do that.' She added that Dr Upton 'mentioned two other incidents she had had with Sandie where she had felt the interaction was affected by Ms Peggie's feelings towards her as a transgender woman', and alleged that in one incident in a resuscitation unit 'Ms Peggie was doing nursing obs (observations) on a patient; when Beth walked in Ms Peggie left. Beth said 'do you want me to finish doing obs?', Ms Peggie said 'you can finish doing them yourself', and left the room', the tribunal heard. She alleged that another incident involved a patient in a suspected mental health crisis leaving, and said that when Dr Upton went to look for Ms Peggie, the nurse 'would only speak to her through another member of nursing staff', the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said: 'That would make me somewhat concerned for patient safety; in our team we need to communicate very well between ourselves to ensure patient safety.' She said she had spoken to the healthcare worker, and added: 'I asked if she recalled the situation and she was concerned about getting involved in any discussions about the incident because she said 'I am mixed race and I am worried about getting involved in this for my own safety'.' Counsel for both respondents, Jane Russell KC, said: 'What do you think she meant?' Dr Searle said: 'This legal case where there is a lot of press attention and any staff being involved in the case have felt under scrutiny and concerned that their views will be widely publicised when they wouldn't otherwise.' She said she completed the Datix as 'NHS staff must record all hate incidents' and added: 'We talked about reporting to the police, that's mentioned for hate incidents.' The tribunal continues.
South Wales Guardian
23-07-2025
- Health
- South Wales Guardian
Consultant believed dispute over female changing rooms ‘was hate incident'
Sandie Peggie was suspended after she complained about having to share a changing room with transgender medic Dr Beth Upton at Victoria Hospital, Kircaldy, Fife, on Christmas Eve 2023. She was placed on special leave after Dr Upton made an allegation of bullying and harassment and cited concerns about 'patient care'. Ms Peggie has lodged a claim against NHS Fife and Dr Upton, citing the Equality Act 2010, including sexual harassment; harassment related to a protected belief; indirect discrimination; and victimisation. The tribunal resumed in Dundee on July 16 after an initial set of hearings in February. On Tuesday, Dr Kate Searle, a consultant in emergency medicine, said that Dr Upton was 'very open' about their trans status during a job interview, and had been out for around a year in August 2023, the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said that she had known Ms Peggie during her 11-year career at NHS Fife but was unaware of her gender critical views, and had asked Dr Upton 'if she was happy using female changing rooms' in August 2023 during an induction and 'didn't make any other suggestions'. She said she emailed equality lead Isla Bumba on December 8 2023 to ask if NHS Fife had a transgender policy but was told it did not. Dr Searle said: 'I asked her if she was happy using female changing rooms, she said yes, I had nothing else to add.' She said she emailed Ms Bumba as 'we've got our first transgender doctor working, there's very little information available', hoping there would be an NHS Fife policy on 'supporting transgender staff in their workplace', the tribunal heard. On her return to work after Christmas, on December 29 2023, Dr Searle read an email from Dr Elspeth Pitt regarding an 'upsetting interaction with another member of staff' and an email from Dr Upton from Christmas Day, alleging Ms Peggie had told her 'she can't be in the female changing room, it's wrong and lots of others feel this way' and 'she continued to tell me she is intimidated, she told me women have a right to feel safe', and made a comment about 'prisons', the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said: 'To me that was likening the situation to the Isla Bryson case that was very well publicised. Isla Bryson was a convicted rapist who was housed temporally in a female prison.' She said she was 'very concerned' and 'knew there wasn't an NHS Fife policy', adding that 'according to the hate incident policy it is verbal harassment', the tribunal heard. She said she had a meeting with Dr Upton at 5pm who was 'shaken and distressed', and they completed a Datix internal report together. Dr Searle said: 'We looked at NHS Fife's hate incident policy and recognised this required a Datix to be completed, so we completed that together, we discussed reporting the incident to the police as that's again what is recommended in NHS Fife policy. 'Beth said she would think about it, we looked at her shift patterns to see when she was next due to be in and if she felt safe to do that.' She added that Dr Upton 'mentioned two other incidents she had had with Sandie where she had felt the interaction was affected by Ms Peggie's feelings towards her as a transgender woman', and alleged that in one incident in a resuscitation unit 'Ms Peggie was doing nursing obs (observations) on a patient; when Beth walked in Ms Peggie left. Beth said 'do you want me to finish doing obs?', Ms Peggie said 'you can finish doing them yourself', and left the room', the tribunal heard. She alleged that another incident involved a patient in a suspected mental health crisis leaving, and said that when Dr Upton went to look for Ms Peggie, the nurse 'would only speak to her through another member of nursing staff', the tribunal heard. Dr Searle said: 'That would make me somewhat concerned for patient safety; in our team we need to communicate very well between ourselves to ensure patient safety.' She said she had spoken to the healthcare worker, and added: 'I asked if she recalled the situation and she was concerned about getting involved in any discussions about the incident because she said 'I am mixed race and I am worried about getting involved in this for my own safety'.' Counsel for both respondents, Jane Russell KC, said: 'What do you think she meant?' Dr Searle said: 'This legal case where there is a lot of press attention and any staff being involved in the case have felt under scrutiny and concerned that their views will be widely publicised when they wouldn't otherwise.' She said she completed the Datix as 'NHS staff must record all hate incidents' and added: 'We talked about reporting to the police, that's mentioned for hate incidents.' The tribunal continues.
Scotsman
22-07-2025
- Health
- Scotsman
Emails discussing Sandie Peggie probe should not have been written, doctor tells tribunal
Consultant denies 'deliberately concealing' email sent by colleague that included six potential witnesses and transgender doctor Sign up to our daily newsletter – Regular news stories and round-ups from around Scotland direct to your inbox Sign up Thank you for signing up! Did you know with a Digital Subscription to The Scotsman, you can get unlimited access to the website including our premium content, as well as benefiting from fewer ads, loyalty rewards and much more. Learn More Sorry, there seem to be some issues. Please try again later. Submitting... Emails between witnesses discussing an investigation into a gender critical nurse who was suspended following a dispute with a transgender doctor "should not have been written", a consultant told a tribunal. Sandie Peggie was suspended after she complained about having to share a changing room with transgender medic Dr Beth Upton at Victoria Hospital , Kirkcaldy , Fife , on Christmas Eve 2023. Advertisement Hide Ad Advertisement Hide Ad She was placed on special leave after Dr Upton made an allegation of bullying and harassment and cited concerns about "patient care". Nurse Sandie Peggie complained about sharing a changing room with a transgender doctor | Lisa Ferguson Ms Peggie has lodged a claim against NHS Fife and Dr Upton, citing the Equality Act 2010, including sexual harassment; harassment related to a protected belief; indirect discrimination; and victimisation. The tribunal resumed in Dundee on July 16 after an initial set of hearings in February. On Tuesday, Dr Kate Searle , a consultant in emergency medicine, gave evidence and denied "deliberately concealing" an email sent on January 5 2024 by fellow consultant Maggie Currer, with six potential witnesses plus Dr Upton included. Advertisement Hide Ad Advertisement Hide Ad A judicial order was made in January by the tribunal, however documentation emerged during the hearings in February and an IT trawl was commissioned which Dr Searle said all clinicians involved complied with. Barrister Naomi Cunningham , representing Ms Peggie, said: "I want to suggest you deliberately concealed it to conceal wrongdoing of colleagues." Dr Searle said: "It would be dishonest to do that and I'm a doctor who acts as honestly as I can at all times." 'Honesty and integrity' In her evidence, Dr Searle said that she had no concerns about Dr Upton's allegations as the General Medical Council requires "honesty and integrity". However, she said she was "never informed" that a referral to the Nursing and Midwifery Council had been made, the tribunal heard. Advertisement Hide Ad Advertisement Hide Ad She said that she emailed Dr Upton with others included later in January to give an "update" on the investigation. But during cross-examination, Dr Searle admitted "that we should not have written these things in a group email to witnesses". Ms Cunningham said the email on January 5 2024 was "seriously embarrassing to the respondents" and said it "appears to be an intention to set up and co-ordinate a group who should not be talking about this as they're witnesses". Dr Beth Upton | National World She added: "It says 'information must not be shared outside this group as risk of foot in mouth syndrome - it is quite a serious risk of foot in mouth syndrome'." Dr Searle said: "I can appreciate that in hindsight we should not have written these things in a group email to witnesses." Advertisement Hide Ad Advertisement Hide Ad Ms Cunningham quoted from Dr Upton's evidence, including that using female changing rooms was "a thing I have been instructed to be the most appropriate", and describing biological sex as a "nebulous dog whistle". Dr Searle denied telling the junior doctor to use female facilities, and said: "Definitely no instructions were given." She agreed that biological sex was "significant", but when the term "nebulous dog whistle" was put to her, she denied knowing what it meant. Ms Cunningham said: "I think it must follow that anyone who describes biological sex as a 'nebulous dog whistle' would be talking obvious nonsense." Dr Searle said: "I'm not sure what that means." Advertisement Hide Ad Advertisement Hide Ad The witness said she emailed Equalities lead Isla Bumba on December 8 2023 as Dr Upton felt "uncomfortable" about Ms Peggie "self-excluding" from the female changing room, but said she "didn't recall" raising the possibility of taking it further, as mentioned in an internal investigation. She said she Googled policies around self-identification, and added: "I'm not a law expert - if you Google it, it comes up under Equality Act, there are many references to toilets and changing rooms. I subsequently emailed Isla Bumba who is much more expert in Equalities than me. She agreed there is no policy." The consultant denied that she perceived self-exclusion as "misbehaviour". Dr Searle said: "We would have discussed it if Dr Upton was very uncomfortable and it was affecting them". Advertisement Hide Ad Advertisement Hide Ad 'Compassion and kindness' She said a discussion would have involved "compassion and kindness", but added: "It doesn't sound otherwise like there's anything to take further." Ms Cunningham said: "At the time you discussed it with Dr Upton you considered this to be misbehaviour, she (Ms Peggie) was behaving badly and making him feel uncomfortable." However, Dr Searle said: "Beth felt uncomfortable that Sandie appeared to not want to engage." Ms Cunningham said: "My question was: both you and he regarded Sandie's conduct in removing herself a form of misbehaviour?" Advertisement Hide Ad Advertisement Hide Ad Dr Searle said: "I don't agree we would have classed it as misbehaviour." Ms Cunningham said: "I think you've already confirmed that email to Isla Bumba on December 8 was prompted by a conversation about Sandie removing herself from the changing room when he was there, that's right? "You ask if there's any policies around transgender staff and suggest Dr Upton might be keen to help develop some; is it fair for the tribunal to infer the possibility of developing policies to make it easier for Dr Upton to take matters further?" Advertisement Hide Ad Advertisement Hide Ad Dr Searle said: "No, I don't agree. I think there needs to be an NHS Fife policy on how everyone can feel comfortable in changing areas of their choosing." Asked by Ms Cunningham at one point whether she is female, Dr Searle said: 'Female is on my birth certificate.' Asked to elaborate on how she came to have 'female' on her birth certificate, Dr Searle replied: 'It is usually a medical decision made at birth by the biological characteristics visually seen when delivering the baby. 'I am not an expert in it.'
