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The Spinoff
6 days ago
- Entertainment
- The Spinoff
Our first reactions to Virgin, Lorde's brand new album
The Spinoff writers share their thoughts on Lorde's fourth album. After returning from her typical four-year hiatus with a series of thrilling pop-ups, including one in the YMCA bathrooms in central Tāmaki Makaurau, New Zealand pop star Lorde released her fourth album Virgin at midnight last night. With an icy blue cover depicting an X-ray of the singer's own pelvis, the album has brought with it much fan speculation. Will it be even more revealing than her verse in 'girl, so confusing'? Will it be a return to the Melodrama era? And why, oh why, is there a Baby Bash credit? We took a long, hard listen overnight to bring you these findings. Lyric Waiwiri-Smith My virgin Virgin listen was exactly as God intended: alone in my bedroom with the lights off waiting for the midnight release. This is a good nighttime album in the sense that there's an equal number of songs to cry (in a Melodrama way) and dance (in a kind-of Brat way) to – but mostly this is the kind of album that will make you hope the next drug the Act Party makes available over the counter is ketamine. How will Virgin rank in the overall Lorde discography? It's definitely above Solar Power and hitting a sweet spot between Melodrama and Pure Heroine. She's showing off her vocals a bit more, but also really nailing that David Byrne thing of treating lyrical delivery like spoken word that can puncture a melody, rather than flow with it (which kind-of irked me in 'GRWM' and 'Shapeshifter' at first, but now it's very much grown on me). There's a lot of lyrics in this which could work like cryptic Instagram posts ('2009 me'd be so impressed') or something I'd write in my diary if I was crashing out ('if I had virginity, I would have given that too'). And production-wise, Virgin is pretty stripped back, which might be hard for the 'Supercut' and 'Hard Feelings/Loveless' heads. Lorde told us this album would feel like shotgunning a Red Bull and kissing someone you really like, and given the album's runtime and lyrical content, yes, exactly that. 'Clearblue' feels like a new career all-timer for her – a song about wishing you kept the pregnancy test from your last relationship as a memento is exactly what I want to hear from Lorde's ovulation album, and 'your metal detector hits my precious treasure' is my favourite line at the moment. I'll be ready to discuss 'David' after a few more therapy sessions. Mad Chapman In a beautiful and completely coincidental turn of events, I listened to Lorde's new album in full the minute it was released, while riding a city bike around the waterfront in Singapore. I managed two full listens through before dragging my clammy self back to the hotel. My first thought: I wish it was longer. At 34 minutes it ends before it's really begun. But where albums often fall over by not living up to their pre-release singles, Virgin feels like the inverse. 'Favourite Daughter' and 'Current Affairs' are like therapy, and 'David' will likely have the longest shelf life. Lyrically, welcome back to the poet Lorde. Production-wise, I had hoped for a bit more experimenting, though there's a safety (as a listener) in dropping straight back into the melodies and moods we recognise. The final moments of 'David' are thrilling and felt like she was about to dive into something new and then bam, the album is over. Wanted more, enjoyed what I got. P.S. Has Lorde ever made a joke in a song? Because I laughed out loud at the 'Suga Suga' reference. Gabi Lardies Wow not fair guys, I listened to Virgin through headphones in the corner of the lunch-room while being assaulted by the smell of my colleagues' morning eggs. I also encountered some technical difficulties [ads interrupting the flow] due to recently having cancelled my Spotify subscription. I am still trying to figure out an alternative, recommendations welcome. It was during the third song, 'Shapeshifter', that I thought 'ahhhh I know what this is' – bedroom pop, albeit made by one of the biggest pop stars in the world and certainly not lo-fi. These songs, entirely constructed of Ella Yelich-O'Connor's voice and electronic melodies and instruments, are introspective, intimate, nostalgic and sometimes dreamy. Though they're a million miles off Solar Power, they don't hit those party highs of Melodrama. There were moments, particularly in 'Clearblue', when I was reminded of Kody Nielson's Silicon project, and other moments where I thought of Pickle Darling. This is a perfect winter album, something to curl up with on a cold night alone. The lyrics are easy to relate to [it's a break up album too] and it's nice to have some pop for introverts. Alex Casey As Lorde has established herself, this album is probably best enjoyed in a subterranean carpark or a grimy toilet block, alas my first Virgin listen was while doing the damn dishes and making myself a damn omelette before work this morning (as a wise woman once said: vine hanging over the door, dog who comes when I call etc etc etc). Nonetheless, the first three tracks lifted me out of chilly Christchurch suburbia to a place much more thrilling, sweaty, and industrial. She doesn't want us to take our time and bliss out in the sun anymore, but absolutely ping out with urgency under the blue lights. I saw Lorde say in an interview recently that she was put here to make bangers, but that doesn't mean that these songs are all feel-good euphoria. 'Favourite Daughter' is my immediate favourite, a soaring release of a pop song that also fucked me up so insanely hard that I was in tears by the last line. Mum stuff, my god. The whole run through 'Man of Year' to 'Favourite Daughter' to 'Current Affairs' to 'Clearblue' is a powerful Mount Rushmore of knotty unspoken women's shit, confirming suspicions that 'girl so confusing' was just the tip of a very gnarly iceberg. Also the line from 'Suga Suga' – 'Got me lifted, feeling so gifted' – in 'If She Could See Me Now' is the 'Can I kick it? Yeah, I can' from 'Solar Power' and I love it. Not just because I am fuelled almost entirely by early 2000s popular culture references, but because it brought back a vulnerable memory I have long tried to bury. Sometime in 2016, a bunch of us journalist freaks and Lorde, somehow, were on a cursed van ride home from a boozy media schmooze-fest. She had control of the aux cord (rightly so) and I bellowed 'play Baby Bash!!!!' at her in a sav-fuelled fugue state. The look on her face has haunted me ever since, but hearing this lyric on Virgin makes me think that maybe she didn't hate the suggestion as much as I have assumed she did for the last near-decade. That's healing, that's growth… that's Virgin.
The Spinoff
24-06-2025
- Science
- The Spinoff
How is AI affecting New Zealand creatives?
Claire Mabey speaks to four local creatives who say they've experienced a decline in work linked to the rise of AI. A recent study on the 'cognitive cost of using a Large Language Model (LLM) ' found that the critical thinking skills of ChatGPT users may decline over time. 'While these systems reduce immediate cognitive load, they may simultaneously diminish critical thinking capabilities and lead to decreased engagement in deep analytical processes,' says the report. The study was prompted by 'the rapid proliferation of LLMs' across all aspects of our lives, including work, education and home. Despite the uncertain impact of AI on our cognitive abilities, ethical and environmental concerns, and its potential impact on people's employment prospects, many workplaces, including here in Aotearoa, are adopting AI solutions in place of human processes. The creative sector is one of the most impacted by AI, as LLMs and design-based tools offer quick and cheap alternatives to human craft and expertise. The Spinoff spoke to four Aotearoa creatives who have lost work to AI. Here are their stories. Freya Daly Sadgrove, creative writer and editor In 2024 Freya Daly Sadgrove got 'a dreamy job' marking weekly personal development reports from master of engineering students in an innovative course at an Australian university, work she describes as 'essentially marking people's diaries on the quality of their introspection'. Daly Sadgrove was deeply invested in the work and relished the privilege of reading such personal accounts. The most important part of the job, from Daly Sadgrove's perspective, was writing constructive feedback in response, engaging on a deep level with the students' personal revelations to foster their self-awareness and interpersonal skills. Daly Sadgrove says it was subtle work and required a high level of empathy. Most of the markers, including Daly Sadgrove, weren't involved in engineering at all and were hired instead for their ability to understand people and communicate with them. 'I loved it so much,' says Daly Sadgrove. 'I loved the insight I got into the minds of people with very different lives from me.' Daly Sadgrove found the job rewarding, too – she could see how her feedback was having a positive effect on the students week after week. After one semester in the job, Daly Sadgrove was offered it again for the next semester. But this time, she and the other markers were told they would no longer be writing the feedback, but instead would be 'lightly editing feedback generated by a Large Language Model (LLM)'. The changes to the job description were laid out in a document sent to all of the markers, which justified the use of LLMs by saying the AI tools 'remove all the boring parts of the marker job, by getting it to write all the routine 'framing' parts of the feedback … You can focus your efforts on the parts of the feedback students will actually read, giving them the most relevant and effective takeaways.' The university's document said the LLMs would be providing a summary of each section of the students' work and that 'the machine will give feedback that will be good at making the student feel heard. LLMs are not useful for helping students improve or delivering significant insights.' As a writer, Daly Sadgrove said she found it demeaning that the university framed the use of the LLM as a way to remove the 'boring writing parts'. She was confused by the assumption that students weren't reading the markers' feedback, given she had seen weekly evidence that they were. Daly Sadgrove wrote a response to the university to reject the reframed job. 'I am floored by the logic that spends any energy on designing a machine to do the job of making students feel heard,' she wrote. 'Do the students know it'll be a machine making them feel heard? Do you think that will make them feel heard? Or are we planning not to tell the students that our job as humans is specifically not to listen to them, but instead to listen largely to the machine that has processed their thoughts?' Daly Sadgrove, and several of her colleagues, declined the job offer. Jackie Lee Morrison, writer and editor In 2022 Jackie Lee Morrison joined a copywriting company as a project manager and lead editor. The company had positioned itself as a copywriting agency with real, skilled writers. When Lee Morrison joined, the work the company had was steady and growing. So much so that Lee Morrison was involved in recruiting new writers to expand the team in order to meet demand. In November 2022 Open AI's ChatGPT was released to the public and Lee Morrison saw an immediate drop-off in client work as people began to experiment with AI solutions. The release of ChatGPT coincided with the company taking on a major shareholder in the US, which was expected to bring in more US clients. The newly expanded team was ready and waiting for the increase in work, but it never came as the US clients were the first to start experimenting with AI. Given the company marketed itself as using real writers, the internal stance on AI was strict. Lee Morrison says they used several AI detection programmes to vet work. However, from January 2023 copywriting contracts dropped off to the point where there was no longer enough work to support her team, Lee Morrison says. Some writers were let go, others left on their own. Other writers, says Lee Morrison, 'were simply left hanging, waiting for potential work'. Towards the end of 2023, work had dwindled significantly. Lee Morrison says that her manager wanted to keep her on board as long as possible, but even his position within the company was precarious. At the end of the year, Lee Morrison made the decision to leave. 'I think things would've just dropped off,' she says. Ash Raymond James, writer and graphic designer Ash Raymond James has been a freelance writer and designer for more than a decade. He says that AI is having a 'severely negative' impact on his work, particularly in relation to book design and editing contracts as publishing companies and self-publishing clients turn to AI. Ash says clients are asking AI models to edit their work and are using AI tools to create design assets like logos and social media assets. Some clients, he says, have an expectation that his fees will decrease because they assume he will use widely available AI tools that are faster than his non-AI processes. He has seen major companies implement AI elements into their work instead of using human designers. Ash has received many responses from clients saying instead of using his services, they are going to use AI to create design assets themselves, because it is cheaper and faster. 'It is impossible to compete financially,' he says. 'I am being hired significantly less as AI becomes more normalised. From my point of view as a full-time creator, AI is crippling industries and stealing opportunities.' Hera Wynn, designer and animator When Hera Wynn studied media design in 2013, the general mood was that computers were the future and learning computer-based tools was the way forward. 'But it's gone too far the other way,' she now says. After Wynn had a child she found it hard to focus on coding (websites, games and apps) so in 2022 she pivoted to illustration and animation work. 'But I did that just as AI became more open source and now I feel redundant and like I'm running out of time. I'm lost,' she says. 'I feel like hospitality and retail jobs might be the last to survive.'
The Spinoff
19-06-2025
- General
- The Spinoff
The Weekend: Matariki is the perfect time to start afresh
Madeleine Chapman reflects on the week that was. Mānawatia a Matariki! Congratulations, you made it. Welcome to the Māori new year. I like the idea of starting fresh on the darkest day of the year. It makes sense that after weeks of feeling the heavy weight of dark and cold, there would be a clear marker for rounding the corner. It's like a reward for persevering and, in my opinion, should include at least one more statutory holiday (take it from January 2). Having our big holiday and new year celebrations in the summer is like being made to run a marathon without water, only to then be hit with a hose at the finish line. Way too late, excessive and not needed: the finish line (summer, daylight) is enough of a reward at that point. This week has been a freezing, dark week where there's nothing to do but sit in front of the heat pump (if you're lucky enough to have one) and contemplate every life decision you ever made. In other words, it's the perfect time for reflection and planning, and a couple of days off. The fact that people spend the Gregorian new year hungover, full of sun and often fresh from a two-week holiday, and then try to reflect on their life and decide what they want to do for the next 12 months is frankly unhinged. No wonder everyone sets ridiculous resolutions and then crashes out in winter when they realise 'morning runs' are hell on earth when there's ice on the ground and you can't see shit. Meanwhile, right there at the perfect moment is Matariki. There to say hey, we've been in the slog era but we're on the way out. Let's reflect on the past 12 months and plan for the next 12. Let's take time to connect with the whenua and reaffirm our place in it, remember those we've lost and plan for those still to arrive. That's the perfect time to be making realistic resolutions. Less 'run 23 marathons' and more 'spend more time with family', less 'lose 75kg' and more 'learn about my own history'. Because you know a desire is real when you want to do it even on the coldest, darkest days of the year. The stories Spinoff readers spent the most time with this week Feedback of the week 'Good on you for knitting socks; hand-knit socks are the best. I hope you enjoy your time here in Aotearoa and, if you choose to, get to stay permanently.' 'yikes. that's what Broadmore left me with here. big ole dirty YIKES.'
The Spinoff
19-06-2025
- Entertainment
- The Spinoff
What to watch over the long Matariki weekend
The Spinoff writers on what you should pop on your watchlist ahead of the long weekend. Matariki mā Puanga 2025 (Whakaata Māori, TVNZ+) Cosy up with a cuppa and a warm blanket to watch the Matariki celebrations beamed straight into your living room from 5.45am Friday, June 20. The mammoth five hour broadcast begins at dawn with a traditional hautapu ceremony at Tirorangi Marae in Ohakune, with hosts Stacey Morrison (Te Arawa, Ngāi Tahu) and Mātai Smith (Rongowhakaata, Ngāi Tāmanuhiri) inviting everyone across Aotearoa to explore the old traditions of Matariki – and create some new ones of their own. / Alex Casey Land of the Long White Cloud (TVNZ+) If you need an injection of Northland sand, surf and sun over the chilly weekend, not to mention some much-needed crack-up yarns, I highly recommend Florian Habicht's 2009 documentary Land of the Long White Cloud. Centred around the annual Snapper Classic fishing contest on Ninety Mile Beach, Habicht meets the competitors vying for the whopper $50,000 prize. But this is so much more than a documentary about a fishing contest – the sometimes staggering and frequently charming musings on love, life and death will have you falling hook, line and sinker. Habicht's equally excellent Kaikohe Demolition is also available on TVNZ+ for Matariki, plus there's an open air screening of James and Isey happening tonight in Kawakawa, and a couple of sessions in select Auckland cinemas over the weekend. / AC Runt (Neon) We stumbled across this charming and quirky Australian film last weekend, and had a delightful time watching it. Based on a book by Craig Silvey, Runt follows the lively adventures of 10-year-old Annie, who adopts a stray dog and enters him in an agility competition in the hope that the prize money will save their farm from drought and ruin. The trouble is, however, that Runt the dog gets stage fright when anyone other than Annie looks at him. With an impressive cast that includes Celeste Barber, Jai Courtney, Jack Thompson, Deborah Mailman and Matt Day, Runt is funny, heart-warming and full of sweet surprises. A wee gem for all the family. / Tara Ward Kōkā (in cinemas) Following a kuia named Hamo (Hinetu Dell), who picks up a wayward 20-something Jo (Darneen Christian) on her journey up the country, Kōkā follows a meditative and intergenerational road trip that traverses everywhere from boarded-up small towns to lush green bush to dripping caves. Director Kath Ahukata-Brown told The Spinoff that the film was 20 years in the making, and is an ode to her land and her people. 'I think the road movie genre shows a deeper connection to the land,' she says. 'I wanted the journey to tap into the collective desire we have in Aotearoa for finding those connections between each other, and protecting our land.' / AC Shrek: Kātahi Te Korokē (TVNZ+) From this week's New to Streaming: 'Shrek has been dubbed into more than 40 languages, but Shrek: Kātahi Te Korokē marks the first time a DreamWorks Animation title has been adapted into an indigenous language. Hot on the heels of several te reo Māori versions of Disney's beloved animated films, the adaptation is helmed by Tainui Stephens and stars the renowned musician and actor Maaka Pohatu as the titular gruff green ogre and Te Puaheiri Snowden as his wisecracking donkey sidekick. Experience the side-splitting, gross-out fairy tale like never before.' / Thomas Giblin Secrets Of The Octopus (Disney+) I loved My Octopus Teacher, but only recently recovered from its predictable but still heartbreaking ending. This series is completely mesmerising – it takes you under the sea all over the world to meet a cast of octopus who are shapeshifters, social networkers and masterminds (the three episode titles). One of the top searches related to the show is 'Is Secrets Of The Octopus real footage?' It is and it's otherworldly, like a high-def trip to outer space but you're in the ocean. The series strikes a nice balance between informative Paul Rudd narration, storytelling by scientists, and just letting you watch these cool creatures doing their thing. I felt compelled to take up snorkelling immediately, and had buzzy dreams afterwards. / Liv Sisson Kaleidoscope (NZ on Screen) If you want to see a few glimpses of good old Aotearoa in the 70s and 80s, look no further than this collection of eccentric little 90-minute documentaries. The title is fitting: all that holds it together is the 'arts' – all of them. There's profiles of artists like Francis Hodgkins and Rita Angus, a behind-the-scenes look of a film about the country's 'most controversial murder' and a handful of episodes about architecture. Other than the peep it gives us into the recent past, Kaleidoscope is charming for the way its subjects are somewhat candid and unsullied by a world where everything is content all the time. / Gabi Lardies Under the Tuscan Sun (Disney+) It's the season of new beginnings. Under the Tuscan Sun is a must watch for anyone going through a breakup or anyone looking to make changes in their life. Other than the fact we all want to vicariously buy a run-down villa in Italy and do it up, the movie is littered with loveable characters and the Gay and Away tour really sends it home. Uplifting. Lovely. Funny. A movie that could be described as a ray of sunshine. / GL Long Bright River (ThreeNow) Everyone is going on about Dept. Q but Long Bright River over on ThreeNow is way better. If you want a crime series written well and without unnecessary subplots and a predictable ending, then go for this excellent (if not pretty grim) series about a cop in Philadelphia who is struggling to cope with her sister's disappearance amid a spate of deaths. Amanda Seyfried is superb as troubled, solo mum who is sure that the deaths have more to do with murder than opioid overdoses. Well written, well acted, and nicely contained in a limited series. / Claire Mabey Code of Silence (TVNZ+) I've been on a crime binge recently (see above) and Code of Silence is one of the best I've watched. It stars Rose Ayling-Ellis who plays a Deaf woman recruited by the police to be a forensic lip reader. Ayling-Ellis (Deaf since birth) is absolutely riveting and the storyline is brilliant. For those after a good, solid crime story you can't get much better than this. / Claire Mabey
The Spinoff
17-06-2025
- Business
- The Spinoff
Swears, spending and ‘making shit up': Inside scrutiny week, part one
A whole week dedicated to putting Budget 2025 spending under the microscope means a whole lot of bickering. Welcome to another edition of scrutiny week. Although our government is always supposed to be acting democratically or whatever, this relatively new process gives parliament's select committees the chance to put recent spending in Budget 2025 under a microscope, and really scrutinise where we put billions of dollars every year. The scrutiny job is really on the opposition MPs, who are allowed an arena outside of question time and regular committee hearings to debate with a minister (and ministry officials). For government ministers fronting the scrutiny, it can be an exercise in dancing around questions, playing with patsies from colleagues or casting their minds back to 2017-2023 – perhaps the name 'bickering week' might be a more apt title. There are heated back and forths, the odd revelation, and then the revolving doors of scrutiny spit out another minister. The Spinoff was there to witness at least some of these great moments on Monday and Tuesday. Social development Louise Upston appeared only slightly frazzled as she headed into the social services and community committee on Monday afternoon. She was joined by social housing minister Tama Potaka for the first 15 minutes of the hearing, and Labour MP Kieran McAnulty wasted no time trying to bait Potaka into tying rising homelessness to the government's recent changes to emergency housing gateways. No politician would willingly admit that, so Potaka didn't. Instead, the minister played into semantics. 'If you are talking about rough sleeping, [the census] also observes that the amount of rough sleeping between 2017 and 2023 increased,' Potaka said. Later, Labour MP Ginny Andersen questioned Upston on the rise of people on the jobseeker's benefit, and the minister leaned on a political debate classic: 'That's what we inherited 18 months ago, that's what we are dealing with.' It was a line Upston came back to later, when Andersen pressed her on rising unemployment. 'I accept the conditions that we have inherited,' Upston told her. And again: 'We are dealing with the circumstances that we inherited.' 'Oh, come on,' Labour's Willie Jackson muttered. 'You can't keep blaming us.' Disability support There was one revelation from Upston when she spoke as disabilities minister on Monday afternoon: that the Accessibility for New Zealanders Bill – which sought to improve systemic accessibility barriers for the disabled community – has been withdrawn, and that the minister will 'not focus on legislation in this term, but instead focus on practical terms'. These practical terms are the five areas of education, employment, health, housing and justice identified in the New Zealand Disability Strategy, and Upston promised a fully fledged version of that strategy, focused on these pillars, would be launched later this year. Regulation The finance and expenditure committee's Labour reps – Duncan Webb, Deborah Russell and Megan Woods – came into Tuesday morning's session with a bone to pick. Musings on the 'gradual eroding of our pioneering spirit' in regulation minister David Seymour's opening remarks made Russell mutter 'for fuck's sake' and scoff with her colleagues, and the Act leader made sure to end his speech with 'thank you to those who listened politely'. Suggestions from Webb that supposed ties between Seymour and the agriculture sector had impacted the regulatory reviews process led the acting prime minister (that's Seymour while Christopher Luxon is overseas) to claim that he was 'the most urban MP in New Zealand'. 'My main interaction with the dairy industry is with what we call a flat white, and when I go and visit farm animals – it's usually sheep in Cornwall Park.' There was a stumble when Seymour confused Green MP Francisco Hernandez with his colleague Lawrence Xu-Nan ('you're both studious and articulate'). Then on the topic of flour dust standards, after Webb asserted the minister was 'making shit up' by fudging numbers, Seymour had a different perspective: 'Well, I think you could argue that it's something that is not precise.' And on comments from Webb that the Act Party had been working too closely with 'lobby group' The New Zealand Initiative, Seymour replied 'actually, they're a thinktank'. It was a tense morning in Bowen House, but Seymour took it in his stride. 'We're going to make a great video on the behaviour of Labour Party MPs,' he warned, 'and I think people are gonna decide 'we don't want to make them the government next year'.' Te Tari Whakatau It was much more well-mannered in select committee room six, the Māori affairs room. Treaty negotiations minister Paul Goldsmith ummed, mmmed and ahhed his way through questions about job losses and Treaty commitments, but it was Te Tari Whakatau deputy chief executive Tui Marsh who had the most illuminating answer of the morning. When Ginny Andersen asked whether the ministry was finding it 'hard to attract Māori' workers given 'a number of decisions and positions your government is taking', Marsh said there was 'no doubt' that it was a factor. 'The current environment and the mahi itself is challenging, [as well as] being Māori in that mahi [Treaty settlements],' Marsh said. 'There are challenges in the way of thinking, there are challenges in the mahi that you have to do with your people.' On the lighter side, towards the end of the hearing, Goldsmith gave his pitch for a better Northland: 'a decent road, and making progress on the Ngāpuhi settlements'. Racing Racing minister Winston Peters largely discussed greyhound racing in the governance and administration committee on Tuesday afternoon. On the issue of racing infrastructure and rationalisation, Peters lamented the upkeep of some tracks around the country, and suggested that some local racing bodies should fire their boards and replace them with women. Why? Because 'women understand that it's all entertainment, that is the number one objective now', Peters explained. And asked about hurdles in the racing industry, Peters replied: 'they're all in parliament'. Foreign affairs Select committee room five was a crowded house on Tuesday afternoon – a small delegation from the Solomon Islands arrived behind foreign affairs minister Peters. He told newly minted Labour MP Vanushi Walters (who recently returned to parliament after David Parker's departure) that the problem with foreign affairs was that plenty of people had ideas on what should happen, instead of looking at what has happened, after she asked whether Aotearoa might join South Africa in forming a genocide case against Israel. It was a no to Walters, who frowned throughout the hearing, and when Greens MP Steve Abel suggested recognising Palestine could be a 'tool for peace', Peters responded that 'this would be an acceptance of a state of affairs which does not exist'. But, 'it's not my perception that matters'. Asked whether Aotearoa would strengthen its ties with China (as the prime minister is currently there), Peters encouraged the committee to 'think like the Chinese … [some people have] never read Chairman Mao's books, you don't survive all those thousands of years because you're not a clever people. 'The fact that some of us left there 5,000 years ago – or, two in this room, at least [referring to himself and committee member Peeni Henare] – is neither here nor there, although some people called me a commie when I first said that in 1996.'
