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Yahoo
6 days ago
- Business
- Yahoo
'Trust nothing' to steer clear of AI-powered scams, Coinbase security expert says
Listen and subscribe to Warrior Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Keeping your money safe from scams is increasingly hard in the age of artificial intelligence. Though you can take various measures to reduce your risk of falling for a financial scam, Coinbase (COIN) chief security officer Philip Martin advised that the best first step is to "be skeptical." "First of all, believe nothing. Trust nothing. That should be a baseline," Martin said on the Warrior Money podcast. "No. 2, I think it's important, to the extent that you are contemplating a financial decision, for that not to happen in a vacuum. Talk to your friends, talk to your partner, talk to your parents. Talk to your fellow vets." This embedded content is not available in your region. As Patrick Murphy, co-host of Yahoo Finance's Warrior Money pointed out, veterans may be specifically targeted by scammers. Approximately 9 in 10 veterans reported they've encountered a scam, according to a 2023 AARP study. And over $1.4 billion has been taken from American veterans since 2020, the Federal Trade Commission reported, with 12% of that total stemming from government impostors. AI has also helped expedite scammers' actions. They can use tools to disguise accents and create a false sense of familiarity with the target. AI can also handle the first half of a conversation and then hand it off to a human once the fraud is already well underway. "[AI] can do all sorts of things that enable very targeted exploitation and do it at scale, which is scary when we talk about financial fraud and victims," Martin said. "It also enables the scammers to be much more efficient in how they do things." Read more about the financial well-being of military veterans: 'Trust nothing' to steer clear of AI-powered scams, Coinbase security expert says The return of 'Backyard Sports': What it took to recover lost IP rights and bring back the franchise Military veteran shares the top small business resources for former service members Martin warned that one key indicator of fraud is when you're being rushed or pressured into a decision, with the instruction not to tell anyone else what you're doing before it's done. "The No. 1 indicator that I see of people being scammed is they're encouraged not to share what they're about to do with anyone else," Martin said. Martin recommended consumers keep two things in mind when making financial decisions. First, "Talk to your friends, talk to your partner, talk to your parents, talk to your brothers and sisters, talk to your fellow vets" when contemplating financial decisions, he said. "You should always be transparent. You should be willing to talk to your parents or whoever." "And No. 2, it should not be made under time pressure," he continued. "If someone is telling you you have to move now, they're probably scamming you." Each week, Warrior Money will dive into the financial topics that matter most to veterans and the broader public. You can find more episodes on our video hub or watch on your preferred streaming service. Sign in to access your portfolio
Yahoo
6 days ago
- Business
- Yahoo
'Trust nothing' to steer clear of AI-powered scams, Coinbase security expert says
Listen and subscribe to Warrior Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Keeping your money safe from scams is increasingly hard in the age of artificial intelligence. Though you can take various measures to reduce your risk of falling for a financial scam, Coinbase (COIN) chief security officer Philip Martin advised that the best first step is to "be skeptical." "First of all, believe nothing. Trust nothing. That should be a baseline," Martin said on the Warrior Money podcast. "No. 2, I think it's important, to the extent that you are contemplating a financial decision, for that not to happen in a vacuum. Talk to your friends, talk to your partner, talk to your parents. Talk to your fellow vets." This embedded content is not available in your region. As Patrick Murphy, co-host of Yahoo Finance's Warrior Money pointed out, veterans may be specifically targeted by scammers. Approximately 9 in 10 veterans reported they've encountered a scam, according to a 2023 AARP study. And over $1.4 billion has been taken from American veterans since 2020, the Federal Trade Commission reported, with 12% of that total stemming from government impostors. AI has also helped expedite scammers' actions. They can use tools to disguise accents and create a false sense of familiarity with the target. AI can also handle the first half of a conversation and then hand it off to a human once the fraud is already well underway. "[AI] can do all sorts of things that enable very targeted exploitation and do it at scale, which is scary when we talk about financial fraud and victims," Martin said. "It also enables the scammers to be much more efficient in how they do things." Read more about the financial well-being of military veterans: 'Trust nothing' to steer clear of AI-powered scams, Coinbase security expert says The return of 'Backyard Sports': What it took to recover lost IP rights and bring back the franchise Military veteran shares the top small business resources for former service members Martin warned that one key indicator of fraud is when you're being rushed or pressured into a decision, with the instruction not to tell anyone else what you're doing before it's done. "The No. 1 indicator that I see of people being scammed is they're encouraged not to share what they're about to do with anyone else," Martin said. Martin recommended consumers keep two things in mind when making financial decisions. First, "Talk to your friends, talk to your partner, talk to your parents, talk to your brothers and sisters, talk to your fellow vets" when contemplating financial decisions, he said. "You should always be transparent. You should be willing to talk to your parents or whoever." "And No. 2, it should not be made under time pressure," he continued. "If someone is telling you you have to move now, they're probably scamming you." Each week, Warrior Money will dive into the financial topics that matter most to veterans and the broader public. You can find more episodes on our video hub or watch on your preferred streaming service. Error in retrieving data Sign in to access your portfolio Error in retrieving data Error in retrieving data Error in retrieving data Error in retrieving data
Yahoo
14-07-2025
- Business
- Yahoo
How Coinbase became crypto's fortress against digital threats
You can catch Warrior Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Is crypto the future of your wallet or just the next big risk? On this special Crypto Week episode of Warrior Money, former Army counterintelligence officer Philip Martin reveals how he built Coinbase (COIN) into a global fortress for billions in digital assets. Martin unpacks how crypto could revolutionize finance for the unbanked and empower consumers everywhere, while also warning about the rising threat of AI-powered scams. He shares practical fraud prevention tips and offers real-world career advice for veterans aiming to break into tech and cybersecurity. Hosted by former Congressman Patrick Murphy and veteran investor Dan Kunze, Yahoo Finance's Warrior Money is a weekly podcast dedicated to uplifting military veterans transitioning into civilian life. Through insights from fellow veterans and high-ranking officials, Murphy and Kunze are helping set vets up for success through financial education and inspiration. This post was written by Langston Sessoms. So what are the things that, that you do as the chief security officer of Coinbase and, and, and a leader in this field to make sure that you protect our brothers and sisters. So first of all, I believe, believe nothing. Trust nothing. That, that, that should be a baseline baseline rule one rule no one no one trust nothing. Be skeptical is the. Welcome to Warrior Money, the show dedicated to supporting your brother sister veterans. I'm Patrick Murphy and I'm Dan Coons. Let's get right into it with Bottom Line up front. How does a battle tested veteran trained in counterintelligence and mission first leadership build coin-based into security force first fortress defending billions in crypto? Phil Martin, welcome to Warrior Money. Thanks for having me, guys. We gotta go right from the bottom line up should our American veterans, our brothers and sisters, trust Coinbase and crypto? So they should trust Coinbase, because we're, it's exactly as you say, security from the ground up from from day one, is right there in the mission. Coinbase wants to be the easiest to use and most trusted, and we really do live that, um, from our CEO right on down to the the newest member of the as far as cryptocurrency, I think the important thing that our brothers and sisters need to need to know about is that it is a piece of the economic system of the future. Today,You know, you're going to Starbucks buying your coffee, you're probably not using crypto, and that's fine. We're very well served today by um the the financial system that we all have, but over time and especially outside the US, I think we're going to see cryptocurrency become a key everyday part of individuals' lives. Why do you think that?I think it's fundamentally, and better than the current financial system, you know, here's here's a crazy thing for you. Today, when you send money via like ACH right? like a bank transfer, um, what you're under the hood, those banks are writing text files and sending them to each other via a protocol called FTP, right? Um, it, it's, it's insane. This is incredibly old technology, some of the formats of this stuff are are are based even farther in the and so we can keep layering more and more and more on top of this very old, uh, sometimes creaky system, or we can ask ourselves, OK, we, we've learned a lot since then. How would we build it now today? And that's what crypto is really trying to do. It sounds like theVA. Dan, Dan is like an expert like lot of code to deal with this, but it also kind of speaks to a different point that we made in previous shows talked about uh some cyber threats within North Korea, Iran, uh, we talked about China, and we talked about kind of the emerging cyber threats, right? I'm, I'm wondering how, how do you think about this from a from a counterintelligence officer? Why crypto and why the platforms you're describing are kind of like the right bridge for us to navigate through. Yeah. There's actually there's so many answers to this question. Um, let me take the big geopolitical one first, right? Um, so you guys have probably talked at some point about de-dollarization in, in trade around the world as a response to the sanctions post Ukraine, right? Um, it's a fascinating set of problems. One of the interesting things about cryptocurrency, and there's been a number of articles over the years and and stablecoins in particular is they can foster the bottom up re-dollarization of the mom and pop global, it's reallyinteresting ways of a grassroots aggregate way because the technology because they and they look at that way would they rather hold a dollar or whatever or whatever, right, right, or I mean, clearly the answer is not their local um, so the, the, that in itself is a fascinating, um, use case for crypto and reason that it's going to be a durable global phenomenon. I love that. That makes total sense. So, um, let's talk about you real fast because I'm, I'm like this is a really great story. Yeah, uh, you had a non-traditional path in the military. Yes, I did. You started as a software then you went in the military, talk talk talked about that a little bit for me. Yeah, sure. So I was, I was that nerd in their parents' basement, right back in his parents didn't have a basement. So it's a notional taught myself to code when I was in high school, um, went to college. It was super boring, dropped out, uh, went to work in Silicon Valley, um, went to work for a couple of companies. 9/11 happened, um, and I went into the and the military, I focused on counterintelligence. I was an Arabic linguist, got to do a bunch of cool stuff, really learned a lot about, um, as you said, in the sort of mission first or leadership, but we're really just people, people first leadership as I would talk about it and was able to wrap that into my technical background as as I, as I sort of left the move into cybersecurity and just I've never looked back. Yeah, so we, we talk a lot, a lot on the show about finding purpose and transitioning purpose, right? So you move from Milt Army to Amazon to then an early employee at Palantirer to then annoy employee at Coinbase. Can you talk about what you were in search of? Like what what why why did you? So like, like most people say, hey, army to Amazon's a really good journey, right?But there's a call that I feel like you had that was like, hey, I gotta go do something else. Can you talk a little bit about that? Exactly right. know, coming from the military, the thing that that kept me in as long as as long as I was in was was always the mission. It was always like the larger context of what we're doing in the world. And when I went to Amazon,Great company. They do amazing things. I mean, I, I give them way too much money, right? You, me, my wife,we all the show this morning, right? The core of it is they ship more boxes faster to more people. It's great, but that's not what was really important to me. It didn't, it didn't like really resonate with me. And so when a guy I served with, uh, who was at Pallanter at the time, reached out and said like, hey, you should really come talk to Pallanttier, um, like we're doing cool stuff, and it's stuff that you care it was, it was an easy, yeah, I should absolutely explore that. Yeah, 11 question. The, the stuff you care about, give me the very specific visceral example of what that meant for you. Yeah, I, I, I think it is, and really what drew me to to Pallantry and then Coinbase is I could see a problem in the world that I had like direct experience with, right? I, I, I touched this problem before in some the people that that were there that I saw that I met that I interacted with were all great motivated, smart, wanted to be there for the mission, not just for a paycheck. Yeah, and I thinkthat's what's so impressive about your background, you served the military, you own these major tech companies, you're now Coinbase. You have $320 on platform, right? And there's this trust because frankly, in America, there's a lack of trust in institutions, lack of trust in government, lack of trust in corporate America. And when you have about 5.5 million American households that are deed, that are unbanked, I'm sorry, that are unbanked, that are not using it, you know, Coinbase and other crypto asset teams are, are really fill up that space here in America and overseas. Why do you think that is? The core of what crypto is is a is a disintermediated platform, right? Yeah and and what I mean by that? I mean that today when you swipe that credit card or whatever, there are, depends on the credit card, the merchant, whatever, but call it 34, up to 5 that take a bite of that transaction in some way, right? And, and they charge a fee for that, and they provide some level of service to the ecosystem, and again, that that's built up over many, many, many years, uh, decades really of, of development. Coinbase turns that on its head and says, um, we should not have intermediaries, we should allow direct transactions, entity to to that those transactions should not be censorable by a third party, a government, whoever it is, um, no, it's, uh, it's, it's both are concerned, right? and it'll, it allows that to happen in a way that is, um, you know, that, that, that you don't have to seek approval by a bank, for example, to, to engage with the protocol. Yeah, I, I, Dan, I, we, we did an event with Senator Pat Toomey, you know, with Coinbase, you know, run up to people to vote. But I do think when I, when, for people who don't understand, because listen, our kids use it, my kids use it because they're a little bit older than Dan's, uh, and a little bit older than yours, but when you look at like even using Venmo, right? I use Venmo, but it takes 2 or 3 days for that transaction to go to the bank and then you get your money and why do you think it's so easy for folks just to trust it? Is it that that the pay and instant response that they get that they build it upover time? I think some of it is that, um, you can, it, it happens right there in front of you, um, very, very quick transaction times. Once you get into the infrastructure of it, you understand a little bit more about, hey, right now, you know, that those numbers on my bank account are basically me trusting the bank to say that those numbers are are in fact there and and is backed and risk managed and everything you, if you choose to be a self cu custodial user of crypto, there's, there's no trust in that system. There is just what you, yeah, we talked about that in the context of like the veterans trusting and like we had a conversation most recently about like, our vets like you guys know it's not easy to give your money away. Like why are you don't you don't the first litmus test should be easy to give my money away, right? That should be the very first thing to know you might be getting frauded you talk about that a little bit? Like how, how do you see like personal personal financial protection and security being integrated into one kind of to create that new environment for folks? I mean, it is so tough right now, especially with the rise of generative to tell truth from falsehood. That's such a scaryproposition. I hear you, and this has a huge impact on fraud, um, right, where the, the fraudsters now, even if let's say there's a call center in, I'm just gonna pick a pick a random country, no, not casting shade, but a call center in the Philippines, um, of folks, AI can fix their AI AI can make them sound like they are, they are next door to you that they're from Pennsylvania. Hey, this is Penny from Kansas, 100%, um, it can, it can do all sorts of things that enable very targeted, um, exploitation in that way and and do it at scale, which is so, so, so scary when we talk about financial and victims in that way. It also enables, you know, the scammers to be much more efficient in how they do things, right? If you're, if you're a scammer reaching out to some victim, um, well, maybe you can have an AI chatbot, take the first half of that, right? And now only a human gets in the pipeline when when when the lead is qualified, as it were and I think the part that you're bringing up is the fact that veterans in the veterans specifically are often the targets of these cyber scams 9 and 10 veterans have reported that they've been scammed as cyber $1.4 billion have been taken from American veterans over the last several years. So, what are the things that that you do as the chief security officer of Coinbase and and and a leader in this field to make sure that you protect our brothers and sisters. So, first of all, I believe, believe nothing. That that that should be a baseline no one no one nothing, be skeptical is the um number 2, I think it's important to to to the extent that you are contemplating a financial decision, it's important for that not to happen in a vacuum, right? So, talk to your friends, talk to your partner, talk to your parents, talk to your brothers and sisters, talk to your fellow the, the way scammers, like the number one indicator that I see of people being scammed, is they are encouraged not to share what they're about to do with with anyone else. And and there could be any number of reasons that that that they're encouraged not to do it, but financial decisions, two things should should always be transparent, you should, you should be willing to talk to your parents or or whoever, and number 2, it should not be made under under time pressure. If someone is telling you you have to move now, now, probably, in my opinion, scamming you. Yeah. All right, we're gonna hold that thought. We'll be right back. Take a quick break, more in just a second on where your right. Welcome back to Word Money. We're back with Philip Martin as the guy in charge of security at a platform that's known for speed, which is, I've used Coinbase. I think if you use like, it's known for speed. How do you manage the critical priority of speed and access versus, yeah, it is really who you're like is this because I have to imagine that that's your number one priority. Like trust is your number one priority and then below accessibility and usefulness of the platform, right? So how do you think through how do you do that? So two things. I think the speed I'm talking about is speed of decision, which is distinct from speed of execution. Oh, that's a really interesting, right? It's like if you're being pushed to make a decision, I love that, yeah, yeah, like take a step back. Yeah, makes sense, right? But, but if you, if you've made the decision slowly and carefully, if you've considered it, how to talk to your friends and family, neighbors, yeah, execute that almost like they're trying to roll them over that's that's how you're differentiating. But so that, but then we want high speed execution. That's very important to us, right? We should be, you should, um, you as a consumer should be able to get in, get on platform, get verified and be and do what you want to do as fast as possible, so we, we, I mean, we do a ton of work around this, around machine learning models and making it as easy as possible for you to verify yourself as like a legit real human being who is, right? Um, so we spent a ton of time and effort and money on that. We're gonna talk about more in the, in the back half, but, you know, this week happens to be cyber week, or sorry, crypto week in Washington DC. So when you talk about cryptoweek, there's leaders like Congressman Richie Torres represents right down the street in Harlem, New York. Uh, his argument is, hey, whether, you know, we don't have a lot of big banks, you know, in our community, and you're seeing right? And why do you think that that just, especially with young people that are that are unbanking, that are unbanked or unbanking themselves, why do you think it's, it is so imperative that they're joining Queen base oror other ones? So here's an interesting question for you. You guys, either of you been to Africa? No, I'd love to though. Yeah, I was in, um, I was in South Africa, uh, Stellenbach, Cape the big 5, yeah, perfect. And this may be less true in South Africa, but how many telephone poles did you see? Not too many. Yeah, yeah. Um, the reason why is that Africa largely skipped that phase of development in telecom. You don't see, you go to Uganda or Kenya or whatever, you're not going to see, especially outside the cities, the main cities, right? You're not gonna see a ton a ton of copper wires stringing out they hopped pretty quickly over to cell phones. And, and at the same time, there is not a, I'm sure this is an exaggeration, but directionally true, there's not a village in Africa that doesn't have at least one cell phone, right? so I think what you're what you're seeing in those countries is a, hey, this new, is this this is true for cell phones too, this new technology, easier to adopt, better for our needs, easier to roll out, um, we're seeing, I think that same thing, but in the financial context with cryptocurrency, whereUm, countries like Uganda, Kenya, maybe we go to Venezuela, into Argentina, see real live use cases today and the ability to transact, to hold more stable currencies, to um to participate in the global financial system in a way that they just flat out couldn' um, and so we're seeing them make that leapfrog, um, in some cases over traditional banks into, into crypto because it's more suited to their needs. Yeah, yeah, I mean this I see my son, he works. He has his first jobs. He's working two jobs this summer and he's in Hassel's ice cream place as we speak right now, and, uh, you know, he gets a check and I'm, and he's like, Dad, I gotta go to the bank. I'm like, hey, you just take a picture of it and deposit it know, but you know, to him it's like, it's such a pain. Yeah, absolutely, you know it's slow, it's cumbersome. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So how do you think about this, uh, like I, I think about you, you just named South American countries, you named African countries, you made emerging markets and a whole bunch of emerging places, right?How do you think about the from a counterintelligence perspective, like, how do you think about national security and and even our, even our defense posture as it relates to giving more people access to more like, I, I don't, I have no idea how you would think about it. How do you think aboutthat? I think different people think about it in a bunch of different ways. I think about it as a good thing, right? I go the, I don't know if this is still true, but there was an old, old saying, no country that has McDonald's ever made war on the United States. You heard this? Yeah, economic diplomacy. I mean, people think it's like our, our smart power is military force for our economy and once you know Starbucks or McDonald's, like that's an American institution and you know, they, they see a face, you know, I don't know that that's literally true, but maybe it still is there's no more McDonald's in Russia. So yeah, right, so, but, but it's, it was true for a very long time and I think it's, it's, uh, direction why this is so important. So I, I see it as an expansion of the US economy and uh.A currency system into places where it makes it harder for them to want to engage with us in global conflict. And I was gonna say, you know, it, it goes back to like the trust level, right? And, you know, all three of us are army veterans. We all believe like we're all reluctant warriors, right? That's the the beauty of America is that we don't want to fight other people that, you know, we do it as a last resort. But it goes back to that trust level, right? When I look in the eye and and you know, look at our viewers in the eye on on this know, they get a feel for who you are as a person, as a leader character, um, but you've built teams in the army, you know, I, I love the fact that, you know, you were at Defenseistic Agency, you know, and you, um, or DLI, and, and then you look at, you know, I, I want to say like slam like, you know, because you know it's Arabic, right, and go there, but, you know, you build teams in the public sector in our army, but you also did in the private sector. What are some of the characteristics that you look at, whether they're veterans or not, when you're building your teams? Um, humility and Those are the two top for me. Um, give me someone who doesn't know the topic, but is humble enough to know that they don't know the topic, and it's curious enough to ask questions, they can learn, right? That's one of the things that the that the military taught me, um, anyone can learn anything, you know, with the right with the right instruction, with the right time, with the right framework, you can teach people the skills. So what should that specialist that's listing us at at Fort Bragg, North Carolina, what should they learn about crypto and how can they learn it? So we put out a ton of educational material, um Coinbase. We do it all sorts of media, YouTube videos, blog posts, so, um, there is, there is uh a ton of information out there for that specialist to dive into just from Coinbase, there are, you know, probably half a dozen other credible, credible uh uh places to go I think what they should understand for themselves, because everyone's gonna have a different way they relate to cryptocurrency makes sense for them, right? Maybe that specialist comes from an immigrant family, um, who, who struggle with remittances back to their country of origin. Um, they should, they should explore how crypto can help with that. Maybe that person comes from, you know, who knows what background they come from, I would suggest what they, what they look for is where in their life is their financial is there a way that crypto can help make that a little bit easier? You can evenlike literally extract that and make that however you find your purpose elsewhere, right? You just described like I think the most beautiful transition advice that you've got to find the problem that you care enough to solve for and that's what helps you solve. That's causes your heart to go solve that problem. Like that's the transition advice that I think we've all navigated through this conversations like like find where your heart is, but it's really hard to do that through noise. So very talk a lot about officers can have these sorts of jobs or unless they can have these sorts of jobs. I don't think that matters in the work world. I think it matters less and less. How, how do you help a 22 year old, 25 year old, E5, E6 kind of lost and trying to transition? Like how do you how do you get to that person and talk to them? How do you think about that? So I think for that person, um,Most important thing is for them to be able to explore because what that that 25, 26 year old E5 E6, they might even think they're old because like they're in the army, but they've been in since high school, yeah, yeah, right, to getto be a little broken, they probably they don't actually know what the world is totally outside of the bubble that the military creates, right? And, and so I don't even know that that what they knows what they're passionate about beyond the beyond like the stuff that they do in the military and their group of military friends, right? I know what they think theythink they know, right, right. And so like uh I think there are, um, and I think there should be way more of these, by the way, because I think the ones that exist today are very focused, but there are, there are a number of likeInternship transition programs um in the military, they're focused on, they didn't be focused on officers or like special forces things like that. I wish bridge Spill bridge is a good example. I wish that this existed across the board for transitioning service members, and I think the fact that it doesn't is a real disservice, both to America where like that 25, 26 year old E5V6 has skills that I probably care a lot about, but I have no way to reach him. you asyour chief officer of Coinbase, there's no way to get up. We saw that on a task force that we were together on. You just can't get through at the level that you need to get through. It's and that's part of why I think this podcast is because the content here exists and everybody can access it from a from a phone, right? But like that's the gap that I just, I can't see us filling well and to your point, that creates insecurity and instability and that becomes a real big issue for folks 100%. And so, and so the the way that what that E56 can do is, and this sounds like an inane answer, but like go listen to a bunch of podcasts, explore what the world outside the is like shout out Warrior Moshow, but not just Warrior Money, right? There's a bunch of content out there, um, anything from, um, you know, I'm trying to think of like some of my some, uh, anything from, uh, like, shoot, go listen to NPR One, right? I it doesn't matter. In fact, I will say probably matters the exact opposite broaden the horizon, right? Get out there, learn more about what's going on in the world, what the world, the civilian world outside the military looks like, andAnd one day you're gonna listen to something and be like, huh, that's really interesting, and you're gonna like, oh my gosh, I justconnected that to a, yeah, I'veconnected that I connected or that makes sense that that that I I I have some sort of touch point on this problem. It's visceral to me, as you said. It'sso interesting you're saying that because you talked about in the beginning, it's about having that humility that you don't know everything. If people look at the military and like, oh, you guys are just strong and want to break things. It's sometimes, yes, right, but, but at the same time, we want to learn like podcast I still is no stupid questions. It's by Angela Doror. She teaches with me at at Wharton Business School, right? And to me, those type of podcasts, I learned from it, right? I don't even know what the topic's gonna be at the time, right? But I'm either lifting weights or I'm running or doing something where I could just listen to it and then just like and learn. Um, I know we gotta wrap up soon. I, I have to say I do thinkWhen you look at transitioning about 200,000 of our troops to transition every single year and whether they've already transitioned or they're gonna transition transition a year or two from now, um, the fact that they already have the security clearance is a huge leg up when it comes to cybersecurity, when it comes to tech companies wanting to hire them, and we're over a million short of those professionals, and they don't have to have those certifications before they leave the military or a college degree because it's know, what advice would you give them as they're looking at where they might go in theirnext chapter like leveraging that security clearance is is for those that are lucky enough to have it uh real leg up, um, I think it, it is interesting in that it focuses your job search around the DC like, I mean, maybe, yeah, but like the springs needs that work. There's a, there's a bunch of places that are kind of emerging now that do need, but I, I hear what you're saying. Like it's, it's overwhelmingly centered in DC, but like security clearances are becoming a thing, not just in DC area, I think, especially in this administration. Yeah, 100% agree with that. It's there there's opportunity everywhere, um.I think, you know, looking at then programs so you can add on to that, to that, right? How can you make yourself a little bit more desirable, show some effort towards the job that you want, right? Get that, get that first entry level certificate, a security plus and cybersecurity would be the example and show me as a hiring manager or someone that's like, why would I invest in this person? Well, because they, they've, they've made the effort and I can see that. Yeah, and is thatwe talk about leverage all the time, you know, that our troops and veterans, they could leverage the GI bill, the VA home loan, but leverage things like Skillbridge, you know, as we mentioned, uh, and the Skillbridge again, for those who don't know, it's like 3 to 6 months. You could go, you're still on Uncle Sam's dying, but you go and work in corporate America and it's a tryout for both parties like you like it, and then the VA even has apprenticeship programs that they're double down on. So there's a lot of leveraging opportunities that are out there. Our job is to articulate to them, let them know. But Philip, you're a great American. We appreciate you joining us on War and Money. Yeah, I appreciate you guys. Thanks for the opportunity. All right, so, so that wraps up our show this week. Um, so watch, listen anywhere, anywhere you get your podcast. Uh, if you have comments, shoot us an email at podcast@ See you next time on Where Your Money. This content was not intended to be financial advice and should not be used as a substitute for professional financial services. Error in retrieving data Sign in to access your portfolio Error in retrieving data Error in retrieving data Error in retrieving data Error in retrieving data
Yahoo
06-07-2025
- Business
- Yahoo
Military veteran shares the top small business resources for former service members
Listen and subscribe to The Big Idea on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you find your favorite podcasts. Getting any business off the ground is difficult work. But veterans have access to resources that can provide an additional boost and leverage their military experience. Veteran and former Congressman Patrick Murphy shared on the Big Idea podcast some of those resources he frequently recommends to veterans trying to get their entrepreneurial dreams off the ground. 'I'm a big believer in Bunker Labs,' Murphy said, talking about the nonprofit that's a part of Syracuse University's D'Aniello Institute for Veterans and Military Families, which supports military veterans and their spouses in becoming entrepreneurs. Bunker Labs offers educational programs that help veterans and military spouses develop business plans and the skills and connections they need to launch their businesses. 'For over 30 cities across America, they help veterans get a business plan,' explained Murphy, who also co-hosts Yahoo Finance's Warrior Money podcast. 'Because it's not just about, 'Hey, I have an idea. I want to start a business.' It's ... How are you going to get customers? What's your business plan? What's your return on investment?' Once an idea is formed and an action plan is made, funding is the next crucial step. Murphy recommended searching for business grants on online platforms such as Hello Alice, which was founded by Big Idea host Elizabeth Gore. He likened the services to a Pathfinder in the Army who can guide entrepreneurs along tried-and-true paths. Murphy also encouraged veterans to explore how the post-9/11 GI Bill can help fund entrepreneurship training. He emphasized that 49% of veterans from World War II went on to start small businesses, including Walmart (WMT) founder Sam Walton. Today, only 5.6% of veterans pursue the same goal. 'We've got to prime the pump there to get [veterans] to have that confidence to go do great things and maybe even start their own small business,' he said. Another tip that Gore highlighted is for veterans to register their company with the US Small Business Administration as a veteran-owned or service-disabled veteran-owned small business. Those who qualify can take advantage of the government's supplier diversity initiatives for securing contracts and other opportunities. Ultimately, Murphy recommended that veterans find a business model that allows them to continue to pursue the 'purpose-driven' motivations instilled in them by military service. For Murphy, that has been teaching at Wharton, where he helps others learn how to 'leverage the opportunities [they've] earned,' and using his entrepreneurial skills to aid veterans in their transitions post-discharge. 'To me, the lightbulb moment was, I was betting on myself, ... and even though I was in my forties ... I was like, I could do this, and I could do it well,' Murphy said of his experience transitioning from public service to entrepreneurship. 'And it hasn't been linear. You know, some of the companies are no longer with us. But that's part of the venture capital, and that's part of being an entrepreneur.' Every Thursday, Elizabeth Gore discusses real-life stories and smart strategies for launching a small business on The Big Idea podcast. You can find more episodes on our video hub or watch on your preferred streaming service. Sign up for the Mind Your Money newsletter
Yahoo
23-06-2025
- Business
- Yahoo
How money reveals your deepest fears and values
You can catch Warrior Money on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or wherever you get your podcasts. Can money really heal? On this episode of Warrior Money, Douglas Lynam unpacks how his journey from Marine to monk to wealth coach taught him that money is never good or evil, it's a mirror. Lynam shares how to break free from 'money monsters' and build true financial confidence. Hosted by former Congressman Patrick Murphy and veteran investor Dan Kunze, Yahoo Finance's Warrior Money is a weekly vodcast dedicated to uplifting military veterans transitioning into civilian life. Through insights from fellow veterans and high-ranking officials, Murphy and Kunze are helping set vets up for success through financial education and inspiration. This post was written by Langston Sessoms. Welcome to Warrior Money, the show devoted to supporting our brother and sister veterans in business. My name is Dan Coons, and I'm Patrick Murphy. We're honored to have you here today. Today we're sitting down with Douglas Lyman, a former Benedictton monk, US Marine, and now a leading voice in values driven finance. Over two decades in monesthetic life, Doug made an unlikely leap into the world of wealth management and brought his spiritual wisdom with him. Through his bestselling book and coaching work, he's helping people align their money with meeting. Please welcome Douglas Lyman. Douglas, how are you? Thanks. I'm doing great. I to be on your show. Yeah, of course. Welcome to Money. So listen, hey, Douglas, listen, you spend 3 different careers Marine, Monk, and now wealth manager, your, your, your second book's coming out. But what are the 3, what are the lessons from all those 3 worlds that you're bringing that you would advise young warriors out there? Oh wow. Well, I certainly my time in the Marines gave me a warrior spirit, which I'm very grateful for, and the discipline and the ability to like focus on tasks and get stuff done. So that was a real gift. I, I really I'm grateful for the Marines for all the training and the discipline I I got from them, and also a sense of community and in a corps and That that will desire for community and connection for a higher purpose that I think has been a theme line through much of my life, no matter what wild and crazy twist my career has taken, even though my resume looks like a roller coaster designed by Salvador Dali on a sugar high, you know, I've kind of got all over the places. But, but certainly those lessons from the Marines served me very, very well, as well as a level of, um, I think it gave me a certain little introspection about, you know, that ability to course correct when, you know, you're doing something not quite right, like that that that ability to accept feedback, that ability to be self-critical, and, um, you know. Really check in with your, with your, with your peers and say, hey, how, how, how am I doing really like being able to take the kind of honest feedback and not make excuses and to be responsible for your life, that sense of responsibility that that there's no one else gonna be responsible for your, your life, your finances, everything except for you. It's all it's ultimately on your shoulders, so I'm grateful for that and then um my time in the monastery continued that theme. And really, um, deepened my sense of living in community and and living for a higher purpose and learning to be of service to others, um, and then that came of course in the form of financial advice and in the monastery, there were people would come to us all the time with Guests would come with all kinds of problems and like, would you pray for me? Like, of course, but like, you know, a budget might actually work a little bit better, you know, if we actually sat down and try to dig into some of these things, um, and get into the weeds, that that would uh like a lot of people's spiritual crises were either directly caused. Of or sort of the secondary cause of a lot of their financial issues that they're going through, whether someone's dying in their family, there's an estate to probate, there's bankruptcy, there's wills, there's all kinds of, you know, stressors that are, they're they're impinging on people's personal lives that are having a deep impact for them psychologically and ultimately spiritually, and, and really being able to find out, get to the roots of some of those money issues for people and help them navigate them a little more grace and skill. Um, and then of course, I, I, I left monastic life after 20 years to take some of the wisdom I learned. You know, getting our our community went bankrupt at one point in the monastery, that's really kind of became my, my, my crisis point where I had to sort of figure this stuff out and and and learn to have some, you know, again, take responsibility for the community finances, my own finances and try to really build something, take action and put it into practice and so. So I just, can I just real quick before we get in the book though, Give us your, you know, you were a US Marine and then that transition to become a Benedictine monk. I mean, walk us through that process. Were you always a man of faith growing up in Chicago? Was it something that you that the Marine Corps, you know, afterwards during it? Walk us through that if you wouldn't mind. Oh, I, I would say I joined a monastery to find my faith. Like I didn't, I didn't come in there with some deep conviction. It was sort of like if I'm gonna figure the meaning of life out, where would be a better place to do it than in a monastery. Yeah, because growing up, I, I grew up in a, in a fairly affluent household, but we that weaponized money and and treated it with a certain kind of some anger behind it and the way it was used and wield in our house to create some conditional conditions on love, like do this and then you'll get the toys and if you don't, you won't. And so that kind of gave this kind of pay to play mentality that I really resented. And my brothers and I, we all, my brothers and I, we all rebelled and took a out of poverty in our own ways. I went and became a monk. My twin brother went off and became a homesteader in upstate Vermont, and my older brother went off and joined a grunge band in Seattle. So we all basically said, you know, kind of gave the middle finger to the world of finance early on in our years and had to overcome some of that money trauma, and then I think I'm good to help people through that, having been through it myself. that answers your question. I, I didn't. I gotta ask, how did you grow up in a spiritual household at all. How did you leave the Marine Corps? Like, so like that that had to have been kind of a trippy pivotal moment where you're like, hey, I'm done officer candidate school. Oh, and by the way, I was an honor grad and I'm going to leave and I'm gonna do something that doesn't make sense to me. Talked about that a little bit. Well, the nice thing about the Marines is, is, is they have this officer candidate school program that you can apply to and you can train during your summers of college. And they don't require any commitment from you because if you don't want to be an officer, they don't want you there. So you can pretty much leave at any time, more or less the first two weeks you're locked in and then at that point you just ring the bell and you're out, you know, it's not hard. But um cause they they only want the best of the best there and so but yeah I did graduate, I finished up my class from officer K school and and loved it. But I also kind of realized that maybe I had a lot of unresolved anger issues and maybe unresolved anger issues, high explosives weren't a good combination for me to be projecting my things out on other people, although I love the Marines and nothing against them. It was just like maybe this isn't the world I need to be, I need to be living in full time. And um had also had a bit of a spiritual awaking at that point it was like, OK, what's what's this all about? What's what's really, what am I doing here? Why am I here and what's the meaning of life? And so that kind of prompted this, and then if I was gonna leave the Marines, what would be a higher calling? Like I didn't want to just leave that to just go to civilian life that felt kind of uh, so I was like, well, what would be that next step up for me in my it makes it in my own head, I'm not saying it, that that's exactly true, but like that what would be that higher calling that would give me all the things I loved about the Marines, I mean without some of the downsides. That's great. And it was a it was a tough transition. It was tough. So maybe to to answer your question more fully, I finished my training with with with the Marines at the end of my junior year in the summers, and then they had to send me back to my senior year of college. I still had to finish my degree in order to get my, get my, get my get pinned. And as I had this kind of year off in between, which is a big gap year between finishing training and then the opportunity to receive my commission, and that's where I really, I met a mentor who said maybe maybe monastic life is what you were looking for and so I. Took a shot, why not? Let's try to see what this adventure, we'll see where this monastic life. There's a vow, there's a vow of solitude and poverty that you have to take, which is the Marine Corps is the exact kind of the exact, well, maybe the poverty side, but definitely you're definitely not solitude in the Marine Corps. Talk to us about the transition from the Marine Corps to monastery life and then how that eventually got into your spirituality and money. How they talk to me through that bridge. Yeah, well, I mean, monastery life is not as contemplative as you would imagine. It's it's quite busy. Thomas Merton was a famous Trappist monk, he would make fun of monks all the time saying, you know, like they're more worried about making cheese or whatever they, whatever the thing is that they're trying to get done to keep, you know, food on the table, but sometimes that takes priority and, and, and you're living in community, so you're living in a in a in a home. Essentially with all these other men, and you're just like a barracks and some is maybe a little bit nicer than a typical barracks to be sure, but you're, you're, you're never, um, I have more time for solitude and contemplation now than I ever did in the monastery because my day is my own, right? I can schedule anyway I want, where in the monastery, it's like, OK, you got the schedule of, of monastic thing. We're all working full time as a teaching community. So I was in a classroom all the time while I was also in the monastery. So it wasn't, it wasn't as contemplative as you might imagine. Yeah, so you do that for a period of time and then you transition to wealth management and you say that money is the last spiritual frontier. What like what does that what does that mean? I don't that doesn't make sense. Oh well, money, money we touch on it touches all of our deepest hopes, fears, anxieties, desires, longings, um, it's, it's really our path to wholeness is that money, put it more simply is that money is a tool for most action, right? That's, it's just a it's just, it's stored work energy. And so, you know, it's, it's really what I learned and what I had to really overcome was my initial sort of a version of money. I had a what I call a very money. Avoidant style where I would either demonize it or put it in a weird box that project a bunch of nonsense onto it that wasn't there. Well, you know, so this demonization of or we can over glorify it and think that somehow the end all and be all of our existence and this is what's going to make us a complete human being. And so this is the money is not good or evil. It's a tool that like a hammer that you can use to build something beautiful or whack yourself on the thumb. But too often we have, this is why I explore in the new book, what I call your money monsters, so the the ways these unconscious psychological wounds that we all have that that get projected into everything that we do, but particularly in how we relate to money and can create a lot of suffering, unnecessary suffering for ourselves and for those we love and we're not in a healthy relationship to it. So money is so that frontier touches everything. Like if you, if you follow someone's, if you, if you were to open up your bank account and show me your, your, your spending transactions. your savings and your investing, it's, it's basically a breadcrumb trail to your deepest insecurities, fears, and desires, and you can learn more about somebody by, by, by walking through the budget than you can just about anything else because it tells you what the priorities really where you spend your money is how you vote for what exists in the world and what you really care about. And so you really learn about these things by by di digging into people's financial life and uncovering the deepest parts of the personality that come through in their financial decisions. Interesting. Well, listen, real quick, I know because we're gonna be in a break in a second. Um, walk us through the Longwood, uh, the assets under management. They had $2150 million assets under management when you were a money manager, when you're an advisor. What was that like and how did that Take you to the next chapter. Oh, I was fine. It was, it's a great adventure, so I, I, I just took an exit strategy from that business about a year ago to become a full-time writer. I couldn't be doing 60 hours a week doing portfolio management and 60 hours a week writing and promoting my books. So I took it, I decided to to take another career pivot to try to get these books out, um, and maybe I'll go back to one of these days, but it was a lot of fun. I, I really enjoyed it. I, I was really good at the marketing sales side of things, that was kind of my specialty is really um. You know, client outreach and and cost client acquisition, and that was something I really enjoyed, uh, working at Longview Asset Management for many years as a partner there, and we really focused on sustainable and ethical investing, which I'm really proud of and did a lot of really firsts, you know, in the industry in that in that regard, um, some big breakthroughs that I was able to do for folks that I'm really, I'm really proud of, like building the first sustainable retirement plan for any school or nonprofit ever. That was really cool. There was some big regulatory hurdles we had to get through to get those things done. But um, but it was great. It was a great adventure and I really enjoy it. Yeah, well, listen, we, we'll dive from the that when we get back from break. We'll be right back, more with Douglas Lyman in just a second. Welcome back to Warrior Money. We're joined by Douglas Lyman. Hey, Douglas, welcome back. Hey guys, thanks so much. Uh, no worries. All right, so, uh, I'm gonna DAgram 8. I, uh, one of my, one of my colleagues, former colleagues, Nina Watson, and when she watches this, is like, hey, you gotta take a gram. I'm pretty sure you're an 8. what, what is in a neagram and how does that impact your what does it tell me about me about my money, but also how does it impact everybody's perspective on that? I'm thrilled about thrilled to learn more. Sure, it's it's a super complicated system and we'll just touch on the surface of it here. But essentially what the anagram tells you and what we know from the latest research in neurobiology is that your person has a has a bunch of components to it, right? You've got your nature, which is your DNA and your gene expression, that's unique to you and we're not gonna. Touch that. But the anagram is sort of the nurture portion of your personality, help explain, um, how your childhood environment had a key role in shaping your ego defenses, because your anagram is essentially your, your childhood coping strategy to the biggest threats you faced in your childhood environment, um, kind of remixed to help you survive, whatever those biggest stressors were in your childhood. But those things that help you survive in that environment might be driving your adult life in the ditches. And so the way I, I used to use car metaphors because I think it's helpful for people because just like you drive a unique car that has a unique year, make and model distinctly yours, there's still patterns for cars and there's patterns for egos. And so the gram is a tool that's come down to the millennia, we've discovered it different cultures, different religions, lots of contributors, and we've really been able to like really make it a robust system in the past. You know, 1500 years is when it's really come about as a as a really useful tool, though it's always been there. And it says that there's these 9 archetypal ways that your personality can form and in childhood, in order for you to individuate as an individual ego or consciousness. And here's kind of the quick fascinating part is is to think of it like this, at childhood you had a physical umbilical cord that had to be cut to separate you. From your mother, but you immediately develop a psychological umbilical cord that connects you to your caregivers, and that allows them to do most of the driving for you in the early years of your life. But that psychological umbilical cord also has to be cut slowly over time, and they explained how that was cut for you, and then it that cutting, which I call your sacred wound, or, you know, it has different terms. But the sacred wound that we have that's cutting the psychological umbilical cord, creates for each of us our unique unconscious fear that sort of shapes our ego and it kind of forms the chassis of our ego, you know, you can have all kinds of modifications, of course, depending on your DNA and lots of lots of ways to individuate that into a very unique ego. It's different from everybody else, but still there's a chassis essentially, and that's what the aiom tells you is. So if I could take a, let's just use you for an example, your psychological umbilical cord would be cut by anger. That you've externalized at the world around you because of the injustices you may have felt in childhood. So you have a real strong sense of justice or injustice, um, and then to push back at anything that the greatest fear for eight would then be being harmed or controlled by your environment. So you tend to be, I call you the the Humvees and egos because you're kind of like the battering ram they can run over anyone or anything easily just 100% don't expect to be fuel efficient with their opinions because they just, they like, they like to always challenge people and create a strong. boundary around them in order to others aren't controlling them and they also like to be in charge because being at the top is the best place to be where you where you have the least people controlling you 100%. That's one example. We could go around real quick. Yeah, so we talk a lot about like, um, personalities and purpose driven, and you talked to originally about the impact that you had your home life had on you and, and that now I'm understanding where your purpose comes from. How does that manifest itself in money management? Like walk your way through how you've come to peace with that. And then be able to give that advice to other folks. Well, OK, let's talk about the money monsters for type 8, the ways that the, so we can all have a healthy la secure emotional relationship to money, which is where I'm trying to get people to. But in those times when we're maybe unhealthy or we're we're maybe our unconscious fears are acting out in our finances, one way is, is, as we've talked about a little bit, is you could be avoidant of money, like anxiously avoidant, pushed away like I did joining a monastery, like, I don't want nothing to do with this. Let's get me away from it. Or there's people can be more like kind of the Ebenezer Scrooge where they're driving their financial life with a little bit of road rage, a little too tight-fisted, and that's the anxious type. So for, for, for the 8, the challenge, we call you the challenger, as I call you the Humvee of egos, the, the money monsters for you, the avoidant is what I call the detonator, meaning you tend to detonate prudent financial boundaries and limitations that might control you, like you don't want to be the one. Like, like grab the check at a restaurant just to be feel important, even maybe the money isn't there, you want to feel in charge, so maybe you're blowing through a prudent boundary right there for yourself, or you can be anxious about money, I call you the domin where you are maybe a little obsessed about money you want as much as you can. But then maybe use it to manipulate and control the people around you, kind of like what I had in my childhood environments like you're using it, but you're using it to dominate others and, and keep them from controlling you by controlling them first. So those are two ways. That's 11 example of the 9 types we could, we could jump into to give you a little sense of how that all plays out. And that's, and that's what folks when they buy your book that comes out in July, that's what folks will get when they buy that book, right? Like if I'm a Marine, I'm a soldier, or if I'm a veteran, I wanna buy that book. Why? Well, because it's gonna tell you a bit more about how your ego is, it's gonna tell you the unconscious lens that you're, you're viewing all of reality through unknowingly, and then how that might be causing problems for you in your life, and, and how it might be, um, a good friend of mine, Richard Roher, he often says if we don't transform our pain, we will most assuredly transmit it. And especially to those that we love most. And so money is a tool for most actions, it easily transmits our trauma and our pain, uh, if we're not. A careful and we can cause a lot of unnecessary suffering for ourselves first and foremost, but most importantly for those that we love. So if you want to have a healthy, secure relationship to your finance, I think this book gives you that roadmap for for for for both your personal and your spiritual growth that it works. The nice thing about the end game it plays well with all spiritual traditions. I, I don't think it's an understatement to say it's the underlying mechanics of all of our world religion. That are sort of running off of it, sort of this underlying code that seems to permeate all of our, all our different faith traditions, giving us a sense of virtue. Like, why do we agree that there's virtues like honor and courage and integrity and generosity and, you know, humility or mercy. Like these are things that are seem to be baked into the human species, even if we disagree how to practice them, we don't disagree that they exist. And I think The antigram tells us why those virtues exist and how they, how we understand a basic level of ethics within the human conscious, to be conscious, to be self-aware, you need to have a conscience. And the anagram has explained how that conscience is formed in you, and they'll give you a healthier tools to live a better life in all respects, but also the lens of this book, of course, is through the lens of money. That's fascinating. There's um. I, I, I'm very aware of the limitations of a gram 8 and I'm very, uh, also aware of the positive sides of an ogram 8 as well as a disc survey and as well as all the different other psychological like approaches to it, right? So there's a positive side to it and there's always a negative side to it and it's basically how you're, how you're being torqued at the time you're being torqued, right? So if something torques you, you can be negative and something torques you can be positive, and it works its way through that. So, all right, before we let you go, we're gonna take, will you take our warrior Q&A? Absolutely. All right, what is, what is something you know about money now that you wish you knew when you were growing up in your dad's house? I wish I had known that money isn't good or evil, it's neutral, and you can use it for love and service, and you can use to whack yourself on the thumb or people on the head, and, and just because someone's whacking you on the head with money doesn't mean that money is the problem, it's they're the problem. Yeah, what's the biggest financial mistake that you see people make now that you wish you could help them correct? Um, I would say helping them overcome their anxieties and fears around it, like all the anxiety that gets in the way of, of taking action, making prudent decisions, becoming financially literate, um, just to be able to give people a little more self-confidence and awareness of where your blind spots are and how to, like you said, every strength comes with a weakness. It's, it's, it's the yin and yin yang, like you're as an 8, you're gonna have tremendous strengths, but the very thing that makes you strong in one area is gonna inevitably make you weak in another area and you can't get away from them. And just to understand what those strengths or weaknesses are, so you're playing more to your strengths and minimizing your those, those, those pain points for you or or when to take a nap or when to go for a walk, when to take a nap or or or when to unwind myself so that I don't go to again. I totally, I totally understand. I very much appreciate it. Um, all right, so Marine Corps, monastery money manager, uh, of all the things, what's been the most unexpected part of your journey? Oh, The most unexpected part would be Being here, like I just didn't like I I didn't think it was all gonna take me to this point. Like I wouldn't have, I couldn't have planned this adventure. It wasn't a linear path, but um I'm just so shocked to be where I am at this point, having written this book which I think is great and very proud of, um, and to really be able to be of use in the world to actually find that all these stories, all these struggles, all this pain actually can be. Redeemed in some way, but can be used to help heal myself, but and ultimately I think every writer is writing themselves. So at the end of the day, this book is for me and and but but hopefully along the way, I'm able to share that with others and it can give them, help them. Many bring some unexpected joy and happiness when they in their financial life and their personal life. They didn't expect that money can really help be that tool for them. Yeah, and I think the one thing is, I think we'd all agree that every marine, every soldier, you have to shoot, move, and communicate. And Doug, you're communicating the lessons learned, you're communicating the way forward, you're communicating, you know, how to use money as a tool, and that it's not good or evil, but it is something that you can use for good or for bad. So we appreciate that, uh, Taming Your Money Monster coming out in July. We can't wait, uh, for it to sell like hotcakes. I wanna eat it. I'm gonna get it. I'm pre-ordering it. Yeah. So listen, hey, Doc, thanks for joining us on Word Money. We appreciate you. Uh, that's our show. So listen, subscribe, and review Word Money on your Apple podcast, Spotify, or wherever else you get your podcast or find us at Yahoo Finance. I'm Patrick Murphy and I'm Dan Coons. We'll see you again next week. This content was not intended to be financial advice and should not be used as a substitute for professional financial services.
