Latest news with #abuseSurvivors
The Sun
4 days ago
- The Sun
How UK became hotbed for female paedophiles preying on kids as young as TWO… including mum who molested disabled son
BRITAIN is becoming a hotbed for female sex abusers, with experts claiming official figures are 'just the tip of a very large iceberg'. A Sun probe today reveals 20 per cent of anonymous calls to one charity's helpline over the past eight years were from callers who had been sexually abused by a female in their childhood. 7 And the number of reported cases of female-perpetrated child sexual abuse in England and Wales rose by 84 per cent in the four years to 2019. Just last week former PE teacher Bronwen James, 29, appeared at Salisbury Magistrates' Court charged with a string of sex offences against three children - two girls aged 14 and 15, and a 16-year-old boy. She is also accused of making an indecent image of a child and having sexual communications with a girl aged between 13 to 15 - with all the offences allegedly taking place over a three-year period while James was teaching PE at Hardenhuish School in Chippenham and Bitterne Park School in Southampton. Thousands of Brits have been sexually abused as children by women but many are too terrified to come forward to police because of the 'stigma' attached to it. Exclusive data from the National Association for People Abused in Childhood [NAPAC], shows that 8,818 call logs related to females sexually abusing children out of a total of 44,281 calls between July 2016 and April 2025. Gabrielle Shaw, chief executive of the NAPAC tells The Sun: 'It shocks people to hear, but we speak to survivors every week who were sexually abused by a woman. 'Many have stayed silent for years, crushed by shame and convinced no one would believe them. 'But abuse is abuse - it doesn't matter who did it. What matters is that survivors know they're not alone, and help is out there.' Rotherham survivor Elizabeth Harper* was 15 when she was groomed by a woman - Shafina Ali - who drugged her and orchestrated her rape by multiple British-Pakistani men. Although Elizabeth wasn't raped by Shafina - who died before charges could be brought - she blames her for the horrific sexual abuse she endured during her teen years. She tells The Sun: 'There's this stereotype of women being maternal and loving so you don't expect them to offend, but I know just how evil they can be. 'Shafina was a monster who drugged me and facilitated my abuse. I wouldn't have suffered that if it hadn't been for her. 'I still have flashbacks of her, leaning over my bed. Every time I see a woman who looks like her, it petrifies me. 'I hope this report raises awareness of just how many women might be involved in child sexual abuse and gets people talking. 'We also need more regular criminal profiling of female perpetrators involved in horrific sexual child abuse. 'Police seem to only focus on the really high profile cases - the Lucy Letby s and the Rose West s - but there is clearly a lot of under-reporting going on. 'As a mum now, I will never understand how any woman can inflict pain on someone else's child - or their own.' Disturbing reality 7 7 The findings follow a string of high profile cases involving female child sex offenders in recent months. In June, domestic abuse activist Nicola Murray, 46, was caged for three years in Scotland for physically and sexually assaulting four children. Murray forced her tongue into the mouths of two children and made another youngster view an explicit image she had taken of a man she was dating. In March, Nichole Pratt, 25, from Leominster, Herefordshire, was jailed for seven-and-a-half years after evidence of her abusing two children was found on a USB stick and her phone. And in January, Bethany Hill, 26, from Hull, East Yorks., was jailed for eight years for sexually abusing a child with her partner Zabien Burns, 26, in a case dubbed one of the UK's "most horrific and despicable". The Lucy Faithfull Foundation (LFF), a child protection charity dedicated to preventing child sexual abuse and exploitation, says ten per cent of callers to its Stop It Now helpline who report having sexual thoughts about children but have not yet harmed a child, are women. Dr Alexandra Bailey works at the charity with women who have committed sexual offences against children, or might pose a risk to them. She tells The Sun: 'I think in society, we generally tend to think of women as being the nurturers and the carers, and certainly not individuals that would be seen to be sexually aggressive in any way. 'The problem with that is we can then deny that women are able to cause sexual harm, which we know they are.' Britain's worst female child sex offenders VANESSA GEORGE Nursery worker Vanessa George was dubbed Britain's worst female paedophile after sexually assaulting up to 64 children as young as two at a nursery in Plymouth, Devon. George was jailed for a minimum of seven years in 2009 after she filmed her abuse using her mobile phone and swapped indecent images with other paedophiles over the internet. The former classroom assistant was a trusted carer, a wife of 20 years and a mother of two teenage daughters at the time. Female paedophile Angela Allen was also convicted of child sex abuse after police investigating George's case found the women had exchanged sick images online with IT worker Colin Blanchard. CHRISTINE CALLAGHAN Christine Callaghan, then 33, from Bexhill-on-Sea, East Sussex was jailed for six years in December 2019 after she admitted four counts of child sexual abuse charges. A court heard she was paid £2,285 by another paedophile to livestream footage of herself sexually abusing a young girl over three years. The National Crime Agency caught Callaghan and paedophile Dean Petley, of Leamington Spa, Warks, who was jailed for eight years in November 2019, after investigating beast Jodie Little, 30. Little, from Huddersfield, was jailed for 12 years and four months in August 2019 for sexually abusing children for money online. SOPHIE ELMS In 2018 teenage nursery worker Sophie Elms, from Wiltshire, became Britain's youngest named female convicted paedophile after admitting 16 charges against young children. These included penetration, sexual assault, and taking and distributing indecent photographs of children aged two and three. She was 17 when she committed the offences. ROSANA AWAN In 2024, cheerleading coach Rosana Awan, 34, was sentenced to 10 years in prison at Leicester Crown Court for sexually abusing a 13-year-old girl over several years, beginning in 2013. Other shocking cases involve female family members who are often organised and ritualistic. Gabrielle says: 'This is a hidden and often misunderstood form of abuse that typically happens within families or close-knit communities. 'These survivors are 4.6 times more likely to name their grandmother as a perpetrator, and three times more likely to name an aunt. 'It's hard for most people to imagine - but that's precisely why it's been hidden for so long. 'These aren't one-off cases. They reflect a disturbing reality: women, including those in trusted care-giving roles, can and do commit abuse, sometimes as part of a wider, inter-generational pattern. 'Until we face up to that, survivors will continue to suffer in silence.' Figures from a Freedom of Information request carried out by BBC Radio 4's File On 4 show in 2021 revealed there were over 10,400 reports of female child sex abuse from 2015 to 2019 - equivalent to an average of 40 a week. Between 2015 and 2019, the numbers of reported cases of female-perpetrated child sexual abuse to police in England and Wales rose from 1,249 to 2,297 - an increase of 84 per cent. The most recent Home Office statistics, covering March 2023 to March 2024, show a 27 per cent increase in females arrested for sexual offences (up by 237 to 1,124). How many of those involved child sexual abuse is not published. Among individuals reporting their experiences of child sex abuse to the Independent Inquiry into Child Sexual Abuse in England and Wales (IICSA), 16 per cent of those abused in residential care, and six per cent of those abused in other institutional contexts such as schools, sports and religious settings, said female perpetrators were involved, although in some cases these may have been other children. 'In denial' 7 One such case was that of teacher Rebecca Joynes, jailed for six-and-a-half years last July. Joynes, 30, from Salford, Greater Manchester, sexually abused two schoolboys and later had a baby with one of them after bedding him on 30 different occasions. The father of her child talked of the hold Joynes had over him in a powerful victim impact statement read out at court. He said: 'I struggled to come to terms with my abuse. I was completely in denial. 'I subsequently held back and did not fully open up to people… Rebecca was in my head that much. I would argue until I was blue in the face protecting her.' He added: 'It tore my family apart. They struggled to come to terms with the fact they sent me to school, where they believed it to be a safe environment, and this happened as a result.' It tore my family apart. They struggled to come to terms with the fact they sent me to school, where they believed it to be a safe environment, and this happened as a result Child sexual abuse survivor Overall, female child sex abuse rates are still far lower than they are for male child sex abusers. According to the Centre of Expertise on Child Sexual Abuse (CSA Centre) males account for 92 per cent of the abusers. The most recent data from the UK Office for National Statistics shows 3.8 per cent of child sexual abuse survivors say their perpetrator was a female. A further 4.5 per cent reported their abuse was by both a male and female. 'Tip of a very large iceberg' But forensic psychologist Dr Joe Sullivan warns: 'The official statistics are like the tip of a very large iceberg.' While based in the Behavioural Analysis Unit (BAU) of the Child Exploitation and Online Protection (CEOP) Centre, Dr Sullivan assisted police in many of the UK's highest profile investigations into the disappearance, sexual abuse, exploitation and sexual murder of children. He tells The Sun: 'The problem with relying on official crime statistics is that they only relate to people who were accused, investigated, prosecuted and convicted. 'Victim/survivor studies suggest that approximately 95 per cent never report child sexual abuse. 'Of the five per cent who do, the vast majority will never see their allegation result in a conviction. 'Hence, most female perpetrators of child sexual abuse never come to the attention of the police and therefore don't get classified as sex offenders.' Victim/survivor studies suggest that approximately 95 per cent never report child sexual abuse... Hence, most female perpetrators of child sexual abuse never come to the attention of the police and therefore don't get classified as sex offenders Dr Joe Sullivan The latest Ministry of Justice figures help support what Dr Sullivan says. They reveal 6,825 offenders were found guilty of child abuse in England and Wales in 2024. Of them, there were just 67 convictions of female abusers. NAPAC says the stigma attached to being abused is a contributing reason many people won't reach out for help. Gabrielle adds: 'Survivors often carry deep shame when the perpetrator was a woman. 'This stigma affects both male and female survivors equally and is fuelled by harmful myths like 'boys enjoy it' or women don't do that sort of thing'. These ideas silence people, sometimes for decades.' 'Rationalise' sick behaviour Like men, female abusers will often justify, minimise or rationalise their behaviour. Dr Sullivan, who has interviewed hundreds of perpetrators of child sexual abuse over her 39-year career says: 'One mother described how she sexually abused her severely physically and mentally disabled son to allow him to experience sex with another person, because his condition deprived him of that opportunity. 'A foster carer that I worked with described a grooming process with two boys in her care which involved showing them adult movies and then offering to let the boys do what they had seen in the movies to her. 'Another mother described how she began sexually abusing her daughter as an infant to normalise the abuse and manipulate her daughter into believing there was nothing unusual with what was happening.' The Home Secretary announced a raft of new measures and an investment of £10million to tackle child sexual abuse earlier this year. A Home Office spokesperson said: 'We are determined to bring the perpetrators of child sexual abuse to justice, regardless of whether they are male or female. 'We are strengthening law enforcement's response, both to tackle the historic cases that were not properly investigated, and also to stamp out the abuse still taking place today.' *Elizabeth Harper is not her real name. 7 7
Irish Times
17-06-2025
- Irish Times
Spiritans' promise of redress must be ‘substantiated by actions', says abuse survivors group
Redress proposals for abuse survivors by the Spiritan congregation, which runs Blackrock College and other leading schools in Ireland , 'urgently needs to be substantiated by actions', survivors' group Restore Together has said. It represents people who were sexually abused at Spiritan-run schools. Group spokesman Philip Feddis said 'urgent delivery of a victim-centred, non-adversarial redress scheme is critical'. Ongoing delays on the order's part are 'undermining the benefits of what has been delivered to date', he said. READ MORE His comments follow a public commitment by Spiritan Provincial Fr Brendan Carr to pay redress to survivors of abuse in the schools. By last November, 359 survivors of abuse at Spiritan schools had come forward, including the 347 disclosed in the scoping inquiry report on abuse at private fee-paying schools published last September. In an open letter on Monday to survivors of abuse by members and employees of the Spiritans , Fr Carr announced 'a restorative framework which we hope can help all to arrive at a different place in this painful and difficult journey'. This, he said, was prepared 'with the help of Restore Together, One Voice, and other significant advocates and individuals who were abused in our schools and other contexts, who have engaged directly with us'. Fr Carr said the Spiritans have established a 'finance advisory team, with the expertise to lead a strategic restructuring of the Province's assets'. It would 'fast-track the development of sustainable funding streams, including immediate and medium-term provisions for redress'. He hoped that by the end of this summer he could 'provide a further, more detailed update of the progress we are making in forging new paths to create a just redress scheme'. In response, Mr Feddis said 'victims/survivors will judge the statement based on actions and how soon they receive restorative justice in its entirety'. He stated that a redress scheme is the 'most urgent and important element'. Delivery of a full restorative justice programme by the Spiritans is 'already long overdue', Mr Feddis added. The order's 'ongoing delays' undermine what has been delivered to date – an apology and therapy – and 'diminishes the potential for restorative justice to have full effect for victims/ survivors', he said. Victims and survivors must have 'active decision-making input' in determining what is best for their healing, Mr Feddis said, adding that 'justice delayed is justice denied, and that is where we are at'. He said Restore Together will work intensively with the Spiritans to address how the three inactivated elements of the programme can be 'enabled as soon as humanly possible'.
RNZ News
15-06-2025
- Politics
- RNZ News
Cabinet considered limiting gang members' abuse in care redress
Lead Coordination Minister for the Crown Response Erica Stanford says she sought the advice about gang members on behalf of ministers who wanted to "consider the matter" of limiting redress. Photo: RNZ / Samuel Rillstone Cabinet sought advice on limiting redress for gang members and serious criminals, but ultimately chose to treat gangs the same as any other survivor and create a new pathway for serious offenders. Information obtained by RNZ reveals the government was advised against a "blanket exclusion" because it risks compromising trust in the integrity of the Crown's response to the Royal Commission into Abuse in care. The advice described any proposal that would deny serious offenders or gang members access to the redress system would run "directly counter" to the Royal Commission's reports. Abuse survivor and former gang member Feke Taito says it is "unconscionable" the government considered leaving them out at all: "It just stunned me, actually." Minister in charge of the Crown's response Erica Stanford announced the coalition's plan for survivor redress last month , specifying a new process for claims from survivors who are also serious sexual and/or violent offenders who have been sentenced to five years or more in prison (high tariff offenders). A spokesperson for Stanford told RNZ she sought the advice about gang members and serious offenders on behalf of ministers who wanted to "consider the matter" of limiting redress. The spokesperson said Stanford accepted findings from the Royal Commission regarding the connection between abuse in care and subsequent gang membership. A briefing paper from the Crown Response to the Abuse in Care inquiry was titled 'Redress options for high tariff offenders and gang members'. It was addressed to Stanford, Lead Coordination Minister for the Crown Response; Simeon Brown, Minister of Health; and Louise Upston, Minister for Social Development and Employment, who also has responsibility for redress decisions under the Children's portfolio (transferred from Karen Chhour). Minister of Justice Paul Goldsmith was also looped in. In November last year, coalition members would not say whether gang members would be excluded or not. The briefing - dated 3 April - said it provided initial advice and options on the "legal and operational implications" of policy changes that would "limit" high tariff offenders' and gang members' entitlement to redress payments under the system. It recommended maintaining the status quo in which state claims agencies treat claimants "equally" and provide redress payments based on the "merits of their claim." "Claimants receive and have free use of any redress payments due to them. An exception is prisoners who do not have an external bank account to be paid into." It specified a "blanket exclusion of high tariff offenders and/or gang members from the state redress system" would likely reduce trust in the integrity of the Crown's response to the Royal Commission and was not recommended by officials. It also noted officials had not been able to identify any options for "imposing controls on access to redress" based only on someone's status as a gang member that were "operationally workable". This was also advised against. It later explained the officials had not been able to identify a "solid basis" for establishing whether someone is a gang member. Corrections holds some information on gang affiliation of the current prison population it said, but noted there would be issues with the comprehensiveness, accuracy and timeliness of that information. It also said the Privacy Commissioner was unlikely to be supportive of new legislation enabling that information to be shared. The briefing explained the Royal Commission had recommended redress should be "open to all survivors" including those in prison or with a criminal record. It stated the Royal Commission had pointed to the "high correlation" between abuse in care and high rates of criminal behaviour, imprisonment and the membership of gangs later on, and recommended that context be considered in the design of any new redress system. "Accordingly, any proposal to deny high tariff offenders or gang members access to the redress system would run directly counter to the Royal Commission's reports," the briefing said. "Moreover, it would likely compromise trust in the integrity of the Crown's response to the Royal Commission and whether the Crown has fully engaged with the Royal Commission's proceedings and the case studies and evidence set out in its reports." The briefing referenced two findings from the Royal Commission, the "Pathways to Prison" and "Pathways to Gang Membership" through State-care. "Previous research has found that one in five, and sometimes as many as one in three, individuals who went through social welfare residences during the Inquiry period went on to serve a criminal custodial sentence later in life," it said, and noted that experience was worse for Māori survivors. "Many Māori survivors shared how their time in care introduced them to gangs and gang life. "Joining was often in response to the violence, isolation and disconnection they experienced in care, including disconnection from their identity, culture, whānau, communities and society." Fa'afete (Feke) Taito is now the chairman of survivor-led organisation Te Rōpu Toiora. He said he was stunned to learn the government had considered excluding gang members, but felt it confirmed what he thought the government was trying to do. "Trying to suppress us at the margins, trying to drive us even further down. "You know, the whole thing to me is unconscionable." He said it read like the government was trying to prevent offenders with criminal records and gang members from receiving any type of redress. "How can they do that? "After they the Royal Commission inquiry clearly states the majority of these offenders and gang members, myself included, we joined and we connected with these gangs because of the abuse we suffered there, in state care, in these boys homes." Taito said it made him distrust the government more, and felt like the government was looking for options of "getting out of having to pay or compensate" survivors the state itself had harmed. He said this, along with the decision not to set up an entirely new system for redress - despite the prime minister promising to do so - showed he could not expect any justice from this government. He was glad the advice from Crown officials told the government it couldn't go ahead with those options, and that the Crown Response Office engaged with survivors. "Because it's nothing about us unless it's from us." The briefing paper said the lead coordination minister for the government's response had commissioned advice on the matter for redress Ministers and the Minister of Justice. A spokesperson for Stanford said gang members weren't treated differently to any other survivor in regard to seeking redress and that will continue to be the case. However, there will be a "new pathway" for new claims from serious violent and/or sexual offenders sentenced to five years or more in prison. That was decided after further advice from officials which highlighted "similar regimes" in Scotland and Australia. That information should be proactively released by Cabinet this week. Sign up for Ngā Pitopito Kōrero , a daily newsletter curated by our editors and delivered straight to your inbox every weekday.
RNZ News
15-06-2025
- Politics
- RNZ News
Abuse in care: Cabinet considered limiting gang members' redress
Lead Coordination Minister for the Crown Response Erica Stanford says she sought the advice about gang members on behalf of ministers who wanted to "consider the matter" of limiting redress. Photo: RNZ / Samuel Rillstone Cabinet sought advice on limiting redress for gang members and serious criminals, but ultimately chose to treat gangs the same as any other survivor and create a new pathway for serious offenders. Information obtained by RNZ reveals the government was advised against a "blanket exclusion" because it risks compromising trust in the integrity of the Crown's response to the Royal Commission into Abuse in care. The advice described any proposal that would deny serious offenders or gang members access to the redress system would run "directly counter" to the Royal Commission's reports. Abuse survivor and former gang member Feke Taito says it is "unconscionable" the government considered leaving them out at all: "It just stunned me, actually." Minister in charge of the Crown's response Erica Stanford announced the coalition's plan for survivor redress last month , specifying a new process for claims from survivors who are also serious sexual and/or violent offenders who have been sentenced to five years or more in prison (high tariff offenders). A spokesperson for Stanford told RNZ she sought the advice about gang members and serious offenders on behalf of ministers who wanted to "consider the matter" of limiting redress. The spokesperson said Stanford accepted findings from the Royal Commission regarding the connection between abuse in care and subsequent gang membership. A briefing paper from the Crown Response to the Abuse in Care inquiry was titled 'Redress options for high tariff offenders and gang members'. It was addressed to Stanford, Lead Coordination Minister for the Crown Response; Simeon Brown, Minister of Health; and Louise Upston, Minister for Social Development and Employment, who also has responsibility for redress decisions under the Children's portfolio (transferred from Karen Chhour). Minister of Justice Paul Goldsmith was also looped in. In November last year, coalition members would not say whether gang members would be excluded or not. The briefing - dated 3 April - said it provided initial advice and options on the "legal and operational implications" of policy changes that would "limit" high tariff offenders' and gang members' entitlement to redress payments under the system. It recommended maintaining the status quo in which state claims agencies treat claimants "equally" and provide redress payments based on the "merits of their claim." "Claimants receive and have free use of any redress payments due to them. An exception is prisoners who do not have an external bank account to be paid into." It specified a "blanket exclusion of high tariff offenders and/or gang members from the state redress system" would likely reduce trust in the integrity of the Crown's response to the Royal Commission and was not recommended by officials. It also noted officials had not been able to identify any options for "imposing controls on access to redress" based only on someone's status as a gang member that were "operationally workable". This was also advised against. It later explained the officials had not been able to identify a "solid basis" for establishing whether someone is a gang member. Corrections holds some information on gang affiliation of the current prison population it said, but noted there would be issues with the comprehensiveness, accuracy and timeliness of that information. It also said the Privacy Commissioner was unlikely to be supportive of new legislation enabling that information to be shared. The briefing explained the Royal Commission had recommended redress should be "open to all survivors" including those in prison or with a criminal record. It stated the Royal Commission had pointed to the "high correlation" between abuse in care and high rates of criminal behaviour, imprisonment and the membership of gangs later on, and recommended that context be considered in the design of any new redress system. "Accordingly, any proposal to deny high tariff offenders or gang members access to the redress system would run directly counter to the Royal Commission's reports," the briefing said. "Moreover, it would likely compromise trust in the integrity of the Crown's response to the Royal Commission and whether the Crown has fully engaged with the Royal Commission's proceedings and the case studies and evidence set out in its reports." The briefing referenced two findings from the Royal Commission, the "Pathways to Prison" and "Pathways to Gang Membership" through State-care. "Previous research has found that one in five, and sometimes as many as one in three, individuals who went through social welfare residences during the Inquiry period went on to serve a criminal custodial sentence later in life," it said, and noted that experience was worse for Māori survivors. "Many Māori survivors shared how their time in care introduced them to gangs and gang life. "Joining was often in response to the violence, isolation and disconnection they experienced in care, including disconnection from their identity, culture, whānau, communities and society." Fa'afete (Feke) Taito is now the chairman of survivor-led organisation Te Rōpu Toiora. He said he was stunned to learn the government had considered excluding gang members, but felt it confirmed what he thought the government was trying to do. "Trying to suppress us at the margins, trying to drive us even further down. "You know, the whole thing to me is unconscionable." He said it read like the government was trying to prevent offenders with criminal records and gang members from receiving any type of redress. "How can they do that? "After they the Royal Commission inquiry clearly states the majority of these offenders and gang members, myself included, we joined and we connected with these gangs because of the abuse we suffered there, in state care, in these boys homes." Taito said it made him distrust the government more, and felt like the government was looking for options of "getting out of having to pay or compensate" survivors the state itself had harmed. He said this, along with the decision not to set up an entirely new system for redress - despite the prime minister promising to do so - showed he could not expect any justice from this government. He was glad the advice from Crown officials told the government it couldn't go ahead with those options, and that the Crown Response Office engaged with survivors. "Because it's nothing about us unless it's from us." The briefing paper said the lead coordination minister for the government's response had commissioned advice on the matter for redress Ministers and the Minister of Justice. A spokesperson for Stanford said gang members weren't treated differently to any other survivor in regard to seeking redress and that will continue to be the case. However, there will be a "new pathway" for new claims from serious violent and/or sexual offenders sentenced to five years or more in prison. That was decided after further advice from officials which highlighted "similar regimes" in Scotland and Australia. That information should be proactively released by Cabinet this week. Sign up for Ngā Pitopito Kōrero , a daily newsletter curated by our editors and delivered straight to your inbox every weekday.
CNN
05-06-2025
- CNN
Between Combs and Weinstein, #MeToo is back in the hot seat. Its founder wants to highlight a few important things
At one point during Sean 'Diddy' Combs' federal criminal sex trafficking and racketeering trial, defense attorney Brian Steel asked a witness, who was testifying under a pseudonym, if she retained counsel in order to 'join the #MeToo money grab against Mr. Combs.' The question came during one of the three days the woman, referred to on the stand as 'Mia,' testified about multiple alleged instances of physical, emotional and sexual abuse by Combs. Though the question was sustained by the judge, the moment speaks to the movement that looms large over two high-profile cases that are taking place in courts mere blocks from one another in New York City. Combs, 55, has pleaded not guilty to charges of racketeering conspiracy, sex trafficking and transportation to engage in prostitution. Meanwhile, in a state court, disgraced movie mogul Harvey Weinstein – whose initial fall from grace was the impetus for #MeToo going viral in 2017 – will soon face a verdict in his sex crimes retrial. Weinstein, 73, has also pleaded not guilty to all the charges. Empowering survivors was at the heart of the #MeToo movement that gained wide awareness as a hashtag in 2017, but it started more than a decade before that, when it was founded by survivor and activist Tarana Burke. CNN's Elizabeth Wagmeister recently sat with Burke for 'Laura Coates Live' to discuss where the #MeToo movement stands now. #MeToo bills itself as 'a global, and survivor-led, movement against sexual violence,' according to its website. The founder of the movement stressed one vital point: outside of legal consequences within the justice system, most survivors of gender-based and intimate partner sexual assault or violence simply want to be acknowledged and believed. This conversation has been edited for clarity and condensed. CNN: This is obviously your life's work, but #MeToo came into the public forum in 2017. How are things different today than they were in 2017? TARANA BURKE: I think there's some significant differences. People have language now to talk about this thing that we couldn't talk about, at least publicly. After Me Too, survivors know that they can say, 'I had this experience.' Even if they don't want anything to happen – they're not trying to get anybody arrested, they're not trying to have some sort of remedy happen – but they can say out loud, 'This thing happened to me.' And it should be acknowledged. I think that we don't understand what it feels like to be acknowledged for something incredibly traumatic and painful that happened to you that you then swallowed, and that society tells you is your shame. There's a lot left to do. There's a lot left to happen, and I think sometimes people try to quantify it based on numbers of cases and who went to jail, but the real way to quantify it is about numbers of survivors and people who've been able to say, 'Me too,' and that that process has opened up something for them, something cathartic, something healing. I think people are also more knowledgeable about sexual violence in a way that we weren't before 2017. CNN: How important were the initial allegations against Harvey Weinstein symbolically for the movement? BURKE: It was huge. We actually would not be here without that happening, and I think it's fair to always acknowledge those survivors who came forward around Harvey Weinstein, because technically that's pre-#MeToo. There was no impetus from the public, there was no guarantee of what was going to happen to those women afterwards. Weinstein was one of the most powerful men in Hollywood, who could just like that take away somebody's career. So the bravery of those women should never be diminished. CNN: Weinstein's New York sex crimes conviction was overturned last year, and he is currently back on trial. What was your reaction when that conviction was overturned? BURKE: Surprise, but also not deep concern. This movement is not really about how many of these people can we get in jail; it's about upending the American justice system. We have to do something completely different. In reality, the conviction rate for sexual violence in this country is very, very low. So the act of getting a Harvey Weinstein in a courtroom is monumental. It really is. We cannot understate what it takes to get somebody as powerful as Diddy (Sean Combs) or Weinstein or R. Kelly or these various people into a courtroom, to get them past the different steps in that process. Getting to conviction though is a whole other feat by itself. CNN: Can you talk about how Cassie Ventura filed under the Adult Survivors Act and how that ultimately contributed to this criminal trial against Combs? (Ventura filed a civil suit against Combs, which was quickly settled.) BURKE: One of the things that I've heard almost consistently since #MeToo went viral is, 'When is this going to come to hip-hop?' There's been so many stories, allegations, rumors throughout the years about the misogyny that exists inside of hip-hop. I had a number of people tell (me) their personal stories, but when I would ask these women – most of the time Black women who were in the industry, some well-known – and say, 'Why don't you talk about it?' they would say, 'Oh, I would be completely canceled.' And that's the tide that has turned, and the significance of what Cassie did. The significance of that lookback law is that this was years after #MeToo. We were five years or more past the hashtag going viral. Black women and women of color, particularly in the music industry and hip-hop, had not had their moment – and I would submit still probably haven't had their moment. CNN: If Sean Combs is acquitted, what do you think happens with his power and standing in the industry? BURKE: You know, there's two separate parts of the power. There's the power of being a Diddy, Puffy, the public figure, but then there's always the power of money. If he walks away from this case by some miracle – or maybe not a miracle – we need to be talking about what we all witnessed together. You can't unring this bell. We all listened to Cassie. We all saw that video. We've heard this testimony that's not going anywhere. We sometimes have short memories though. One apology video, one great produced song, and (he could) start building (himself) back. I think we have to have a longer memory. So regardless of the outcomes of these trials, (I hope) that we have an institutional memory of what we saw. And don't doubt and don't gaslight yourself. Don't doubt your own eyes and ears. We saw that man beat that woman in that hotel. Whatever the reasons behind it, we saw what we saw. CNN: Are you concerned about the optics of the #MeToo movement right now in media and on social media? BURKE: It concerns me. You have young people who are graduating high school, even graduating college, that were very young when #MeToo went viral. So they have some understanding, they've grown up in a world with this language and with this sort of new understanding. But social media is really effective. And so when you start having people pick apart these things and say, 'This was a conspiracy,' that concerns me because whoever holds the narrative holds the key. And that is a really powerful place to sit when you have ability to shape narrative around a particular topic. The psychology behind survivorship is so complicated, and so complex that the average everyday person watching at home and giving their analysis cannot understand it unless they've actually been through it. And sometimes even when they've been through it, because each of us respond differently. CNN: What is next for the #MeToo movement? What work are you focused on now? BURKE: We're really focused on safety. I think that #MeToo has been really bogged down by this narrative that it's about going out and getting people, and we've forgotten the thread that most survivors want to protect other survivors. And so we are really focused on, what does it look like to end sexual violence? What does it look like to solve the issue of sexual violence, because this is a solvable issue. We deal with healing and action. A lot of that action is how do we keep more people from not from not having to say, 'Me too.'
