Meet the Press – July 6, 2025

NBC News

2 days ago

KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: Meet the Moment. Conversations with people who are having an impact in Washington and beyond.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Your doctor said, "Get a cancer risk assessment." Something that most women probably haven't heard of.
OLIVIA MUNN:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you credit that with saving your life.
OLIVIA MUNN:
It 100% saved my life.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Actor Olivia Munn shares her cancer battle and surrogacy journey.
OLIVIA MUNN:
It's hard to explain knowing that this diagnosis that put so much fear into me has been able to be turned into something that's saving people's lives.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Plus: play-by-play. Sportscasting legend Bob Costas reflects on his career and how we consume our favorite games.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think the fact that everything, every sport, every game is accessible, does that take away some of the excitement?
BOB COSTAS:
I think it does diminish it to some extent. There are also different aspects to it as well. Gambling. So much of it is, for at least some portion of the audience, transactional now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And: online education.
SAL KHAN:
For someone who is engaged with their learning, who is curious, this is the most exciting time to be alive.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Sal Khan, the founder of Khan Academy, on how to best prepare the minds of the future.
SAL KHAN:
You know, you're going to see 10-year-olds learn quantum physics, and they're going to be the people who push the frontiers.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And, a way with words: Amanda Gorman on the power of poetry.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And why do you think poetry is so critical to who we are as a nation?
AMANDA GORMAN:
We are trying, as a people, to speak to our best shared common humanity, typically, poetry is the rhetoric that encapsulates that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome to Sunday and a special edition of Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in New York, the longest-running show in television history, this is a special edition of Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. On this special edition of Meet the Press, we'll bring you four of our Meet the Moment conversations. Voices outside of the political arena, having an impact on our national discourse. Actor Olivia Munn, advocating for women's health care and early breast cancer detection.
[BEGIN TAPE]
OLIVIA MUNN:
The people who are making these laws and creating these bills and deciding over where the funding goes, they have mothers, they have sisters, they have daughters, they have wives, they have girlfriends. You know, don't you want to save them too? Don't you want to help them too?
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Legendary broadcaster Bob Costas on the intersection of sports and politics.
[BEGIN TAPE]
BOB COSTAS:
So when people say, "stick to sports," I think what they actually mean most often is, "stick to sports unless you're saying something that I want to hear and I agree with. But if you're saying something I disagree with that comes from a different perspective, well, then you should just shut up and say, "there's a ground ball to shortstop.'" I never bent to that.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Education pioneer Sal Khan on the future of AI in classrooms.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SAL KHAN:
If your children are using it to cheat, if your children are using it to cut corners, to kind of check out, that's not good. That's not a healthy thing. But if they're using it to go deeper into a conversation, to answer their questions, it's actually a really powerful skill.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And poet Amanda Gorman on why poetry matters to who America is as a nation.
[BEGIN TAPE]
AMANDA GORMAN:
The reason that there's a poem and not a 36 page essay at the bottom of the Statue of Liberty, when we are trying, as a people, to speak to our best shared common humanity, typically, poetry is the rhetoric that encapsulates that the best.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
We begin with Olivia Munn. Approximately one in eight women will be diagnosed with breast cancer in their lifetime. Munn is one of them. Two years ago, despite receiving a negative mammogram and clearing numerous medical tests, Munn's doctor made a decision that she credits with saving her life: administering a lifetime risk assessment test that led to a diagnosis of an aggressive form of breast cancer. Soon after, Munn underwent five surgeries in less than a year, including a double mastectomy and a procedure to remove her uterus. Just months after revealing her battle with breast cancer to the world, she and her husband –comedian John Mulaney –welcomed their second child with the help of a surrogate. And now Munn is returning to the screen, co-starring with Jon Hamm in the hit show 'Your Friends and Neighbors' on Apple TV+. Take a look:
[BEGIN TAPE]
OLIVIA MUNN:
Well, Keely, since you asked. My husband was just murdered in the foyer of our house, which is now a crime scene. Which is why I'm staying at a hotel. Which is why I need new products. Which is why as you so acutely observed why I might be in dire need of retinol eye patches. We were in the middle of a very, nasty divorce. So there's a part of me, a disturbingly large one, that is relieved that he's dead. But, I mean, Keely, I'm feeling guilty as f*** about that because he's the father of my kids for god's sake. I mean what kind of person does that make me?
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
I sat down with Munn for a 'Meet the Moment' conversation about what she calls her 'mission' to help other women.
[BEGIN TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Take me back to that moment, if you would, if you can, when you were first diagnosed, that shocking moment when you were told that you did, in fact, have breast cancer. What was that moment like? What went through your head? What went through your heart?
OLIVIA MUNN:
It felt like I was in a car crash. If you've ever been in a car crash, which I have been, "Oh god, no. I don't want this to happen. No, no, no. This can't be happening." And so that's the feeling I had. And at the same time, I was so focused and in my body because I knew that she was telling me information that I needed to know to get through this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You stayed focused. You fought. You had five surgeries in ten months —
OLIVIA MUNN:
Uh-huh.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– Olivia, and that would be hard for anyone. You are someone who's in the public eye. Emotionally, how did you steel yourself for that battle?
OLIVIA MUNN:
The only thing that came up in my mind about being a public person was that I didn't want any kind of outside attention or any speculation that I may not make it. I needed it to stay private because I had to stay positive and I had to fight. I couldn't imagine going through a battle like this and having all this outside noise. And it wasn't until I was looking back on photos with my son, just as you do. You know, you kind of go through your photos and videos. And I saw this one of him and I playing in the front yard. And I thought, "Oh my gosh. Like, I had cancer then and I didn't know it at all. And how many other women are out there right now with a clear mammogram, clear ultrasound, walking around, and they don't know about this lifetime risk assessment test that was free and online and it saved my life?" And so I knew maybe about, I'm not sure, like, it was months into the journey that I knew that at some point I would talk about it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
The cancer risk assessment – you had done everything right –
OLIVIA MUNN:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You had gotten a mammogram –
OLIVIA MUNN:
Uh-huh.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You had been given a clean bill of health –
OLIVIA MUNN:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And your doctor said, "Get a cancer risk assessment," something that most women probably haven't heard of.
OLIVIA MUNN:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you credit that with saving your life.
OLIVIA MUNN:
It 100% saved my life. I don't know how long it would have taken me to find the cancer because I wasn't due for another mammogram for a year. So at least a year.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, the National Cancer Institute says that, since you have decided to share your story, more women are actually getting a cancer risk assessment. And journalist Alison Hall says she got a cancer risk assessment, found out that she had breast cancer. And she thinks that you and that test saved her life, Olivia. What does that mean, that you are saving lives – You're impacting women all across this country?
OLIVIA MUNN:
That makes me really emotional when I think about that because, like, that was my goal, was for every woman to know about this test. That women are finding out about this and it's saving their lives is just, it's hard to explain knowing that this diagnosis that put so much fear into me has been able to be turned into something that's saving people's lives. And that's all I wanted.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So if you could speak to lawmakers, people in Congress, people who have the power in the health industry to make decisions about the access that women have to healthcare, to the medicine they have access to, what is your message?
OLIVIA MUNN:
We need to be a priority.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Women need to be a priority –
OLIVIA MUNN:
Yeah, women need to be a priority. You know, our health needs to be a priority. There is the money that is there that's being spent on so many other things. And without women, there would be no life. I mean, not to sound saccharine, or even to be annoying about that, because people have said that, you know, in the past, and it's out there, and people say, like, you know, without women there would be no life. But that is the truth. And although I shouldn't have to say this, because it shouldn't matter, but, you know, the people who are making these laws, and creating these bills, and deciding over where the funding goes, they have mothers, they have sisters, they have daughters, they have wives, they have girlfriends. You know, don't you want to save them too? Don't you want to help them too? If it's all about money, we can talk money too. It takes so much less money to educate women on their options, to create options for women to have the best healthcare possible, and that's going to save you a lot of money. So just help us help ourselves. That's all we're asking for. We're just asking that you care enough about us to put money where we need it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Because of your cancer battle, you went into surgical menopause. You decided to have a hysterectomy. You, like me, and I had different reasons, but I also couldn't carry children, and so you decided to go the surrogacy route, which I did as well. And I know that that decision takes a long time to reach. Why did you ultimately decide that you wanted to work with a gestational carrier?
OLIVIA MUNN:
Having our daughter meant so much to us. We knew that we weren't done growing our family. We really wanted this little girl to be in the world, and we needed her to be part of our family. And that was my option. There was no other option for us. And I just believed that I would find someone so kind, and so warm, and so loving, and who had this calling in life. And so not having the option was the thing that got me through it. If we wanted to have her in the world, which we desperately did, then this was going to be my option. And I would not let my fear, I would not let my concerns and my worries stop my daughter from having a chance to be in this world. Like, that's what I have to do as a mother is to be selfless and to put my children first, and that was the first step – was putting my fear aside.
KRISTEN WELKER:
How did you do that, your fear, and what a lot of people feel is still stigmas about surrogacy that exist?
OLIVIA MUNN:
I truly didn't understand the depths of the stigma until I had started researching things more and talking to more people about it, and saying, like, you know, "Are you going to talk about using a surrogate?" Like, then you've got to hide yourself so that people don't know that you're not pregnant. And I thought, "Well, why would I do that?" Like, I didn't understand there was a stigma. And I will tell you that since coming out and telling people about using a gestational surrogate, there has only been love. There has only been love that I have received, and people have been so happy for us, and so happy to see my squishy, chunky little baby girl out in the world. She is the chunkiest, cutest, happiest baby, just like my son. So happy. And there has only been really amazing consideration and understanding.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You are such a fighter, Olivia. Do you see yourself as an advocate?
OLIVIA MUNN:
I think there are people who advocate and there are advocates. And to me, I think of myself as someone who advocates for women. And it has become my mission in life, there's just a few things on my purpose list, which is to be a great mother, to be a great wife, to be a great sister and friend, and to help as many women in the world know about the lifetime risk assessment test. I never really had, like, that kind of purpose in life. I was really happy. I wanted to be an actor, and I became an actor. And I just wanted to work on things that I really enjoyed, and have fun, and take risks, but I had no other goal. There was no other thing. It wasn't like I want to take the career to this place. I was just wanting to live a nice life, and be happy, and now I have a very purposed mission in life.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
If you want to calculate your own breast cancer lifetime risk assessment score, go to the link on your screen right now. When we come back, our conversation with sportscaster Bob Costas, reflecting on his four decades in sports and why he's against some new trends in how we consume our favorite games.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Few interests bring people together the way sports can. Last year – the top 10 most-watched telecasts were all live sporting events – with the Super Bowl bringing in 121 million viewers. Now – Bob Costas – a voice that has been central to so many iconic sports moments – is marking the end of a legendary run after retiring from play-by-play announcing. Costas spent four decades with NBC covering nearly every major sport – and hosting a record 12 Olympics for the network. I sat down with Costas to talk about the unifying power of sports and to reflect on his extraordinary career.
[BEGIN TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let's talk about how your career started and the breadth of your work. I mean, you have shared that in your senior year of high school you were actually cut from both the baseball and the basketball –
BOB COSTAS:
Yes –
KRISTEN WELKER:
– teams and that, that experience actually reinforced something that was already inside of you, which was this desire to become a sports broadcaster. Was that in your gut always?
BOB COSTAS:
Oh, yeah. I was smart enough when I was 10 years old to realize if I was ever going to get into Yankee Stadium without buying a ticket, it was going to be to be in the booth, not to be wearing pinstripes out there on the field. But, you know, you're in high school, and I wasn't half-bad. I was good enough to be the last guy cut, but I knew I wasn't going to be the star of the team. And it was just amusing that the baseball coach actually said to me when he cut me, he said something to the effect of, "You're not bad with the glove, and you can run a little bit, but I don't think you can hit your weight, and I don't think you weigh 130," which might've been true when I was 16 years old. And then he said, "Have you ever thought about broadcasting," and I said, "That's pretty much all I think about." And he was a wry guy, and he said, "Good. Try that." So he was onto something. He was a good scout, both of baseball talent – lacking – and maybe potential broadcast talent. Not too bad.
KRISTEN WELKER:
In addition to that, you write about the fact, and you've talked about the fact that your father also had a really big impact on your life. He tragically passed away of a heart attack when you were just 18 years old. How did that impact who you are, the person you became, the icon that you became?
BOB COSTAS:
Well, my father was an inveterate gambler, and I looked at him as a sort of Runyonesque character, colorful, humorous, high-spirited. But it would be untruthful to say that it was all smooth sailing. There was a lot of trauma in our family life because he had a volatile temper, and the mortgage was often riding on how his bets went. And he didn't bet on, you know, cards or poker games or crap games or go to the racetrack. He bet on baseball, football, basketball games. And so I bonded with him by following those games. I'm sure I would have been a sports fan anyway like most of my fans, but I became even more knowledgeable. I became granularly knowledgeable because he was following all this so closely, and I was by his side. Now, when you lose someone close to you when you're so young and your own sense of yourself is not fully formed, you'll always wonder. I wonder to this day how he would've reacted to my good fortune. Could I have made him part of my life in the way I made my children and my friends part of that life? I'd like to think so, but I can't know for sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to just remind you of some of the amazing moments in your career that you broadcast: Derek Jeter's final at-bat in Yankee Stadium, Tiger Woods winning the U.S. Open in 2008, Michael Jordan's final NBA championship just to name a few. Was there one moment in all of your career that stands out?
BOB COSTAS:
Michael Jordan's last shot for the Bulls.
[BEGIN TAPE]
BOB COSTAS:
Jordan … open … Chicago with the lead.
[END TAPE]
BOB COSTAS:
I've always felt that a really good broadcast, a sports broadcast, if it's significant enough, should be the first draft of history, that you should hit upon the themes that are likely to appear in a well-written story in Sports Illustrated a few days later. And I think I managed to do that in that moment.
[BEGIN TAPE]
BOB COSTAS:
Who knows what will unfold in the next several months, but that may have been the last shot Michael Jordan will ever take in the NBA.
[END TAPE]
BOB COSTAS:
There was no way you could've anticipated how it would end. Utah was winning the game, and had they won that night, Game 7 would've been on their home floor. And they might've won that game and so Jordan's career could've ended in defeat. But I was aware enough of the storylines that were possible so that when it panned out as it did, I think I was able to put the caption beneath it that was appropriate.
KRISTEN WELKER:
The moment we find ourselves in now with sports – because the industry is changing –
BOB COSTAS:
Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– In a lot of ways, and I want to get your thoughts about that. You have tech giants like Amazon, Apple and Netflix who are getting into live sports coverage. How do you think that's changing the way people watch sports, absorb sports and enjoy these pastimes?
BOB COSTAS:
Well, sports is coming at people, if they want to access it, from so many different directions. Now, if you want to, you can access every game. There are highlights everywhere, including on the internet. So information and enjoyment in one way or another are coming at people from so many different directions that even network television, which is still at the center of it, but it doesn't own it, it doesn't have the complete primacy that it once had.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think the fact that everything, every sport, every game is accessible, does that take away some of the excitement?
BOB COSTAS:
I think it does diminish it to some extent. There are also different aspects to it as well. Gambling. So much of it is, for at least some portion of the audience, transactional now. You got a bet on the game, you have a different relationship to how that game plays out than if you're just rooting for your team.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Given your father, your background, your childhood, you've witnessed this up close and personal – is this personal for you? Are you concerned on a personal level about what sports betting might mean for some families?
BOB COSTAS:
I am. And on both the Major League Baseball Network and when I did a handful of games on Turner, I refused to read the gambling promos. They had to have someone else read them or use a 'voice of God' type person to read them. I just couldn't in good conscience encourage people to do something which I know – for some of them it's obviously just a little recreation and it's fine, but there's an insidious aspect to it that I didn't want to be part of.
KRISTEN WELKER:
This is your thirteenth appearance on Meet the Press.
BOB COSTAS:
It is?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes –
BOB COSTAS:
Wow –
KRISTEN WELKER:
We looked, we checked –
BOB COSTAS:
Lucky 13.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Lucky 13. And it comes at a time when our country is very divided. I don't have to tell you that. Sports is unifying. People rally around their team, the games that they love. What can sports teach us and teach this country about unifying?
BOB COSTAS:
Well, the best of sports, especially team sports, is the idea that people from diverse backgrounds come together in the service of a common cause, that cause being to do as well as you possibly can as a team. And you look at the arena and you look at the stadium and you see people with differing political viewpoints and from differing demographics but they're all there rooting for their team. And in that moment, that's unifying. On the other hand, some of the tone now that surrounds sports, as we talked about before, is angry and accusatory. And it becomes tribal sometimes in a way that isn't really all that healthy in my mind.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Politics is a part of sports. Sports is a part of politics. Does it concern you that we are seeing, in some instances, politics infused in sports?
BOB COSTAS:
I think that politics inevitably has intersected with sports. Anyone who says that politics has no place in sports has to be abysmally unaware of the history here. Because until fairly recently in our nation's history, sports and some aspects of entertainment have been the only avenues that were broadly – and even then there was a fight, Jackie Robinson didn't come until 1947 – that were broadly accessible to people of color or where someone like Billie Jean King could make a larger statement about women's rights, not just within sports. And to turn your back on that is to wear a blindfold. So when people say, "Stick to sports," I think what they actually mean most often is, "Stick to sports unless you're saying something that I want to hear, and I agree with. But if you're saying something I disagree with that comes from a different perspective, well, then you should just shut up and say, 'There's a ground ball to shortstop.'" I never bent to that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And just finally, as you think about the future, do you ever miss it? Do you ever think about getting back into the game?
BOB COSTAS:
I don't miss what I used to do. I think I can still be effective and still enjoy it in an emeritus role. So whatever I do should be in an emeritus role. But I have had more than enough times at bat – to throw out a clichéd type metaphor – I've had more than enough times at bat, and many years ago, I passed the baton. And I'm generally, generally satisfied and gratified with what my career has been.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, will artificial intelligence make our children smarter? My conversation with Khan Academy founder Sal Khan is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. In 2004, Sal Khan, then a hedge-fund manager, started tutoring one of his cousins when she needed extra help with math. He started recording Youtube videos of his tutorials, that he then turned into an interactive global education platform called Khan Academy. Khan is now pushing the boundaries of education even further. His book "Brave New Words" explores how artificial intelligence will transform learning. I sat down with Sal Khan to talk about Khan Academy and his vision for the future of education.
[BEGIN TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
I had the great pleasure and honor of interviewing you back in 2011. I was just starting my career at NBC News, and you were just getting Khan Academy off the ground. How did you take it to a place where you have hundreds of millions of users all around the world?
SAL KHAN:
So you probably caught me four, five months — we were above a Chinese tea shop in downtown Mountain View. At the time, our goal was to cover all of math from pre-K through the core of college. Now, our goal is to cover all of academic learning from pre-K through the core of college. We've been working with school districts. We're now in 50 languages. There's 50-plus efficacy studies on what we're doing. We're — hundreds of thousands of people donate to us. We're still primarily philanthropically supported. But, yeah, it's come a long way.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What does that mean to you, to know that you are quite literally impacting children all around the world and, full disclosure, including my daughter, who's four years old, who uses Khan Academy to help her learn?
SAL KHAN:
You know, I pinch myself all the time. You know, I don't want to jinx it, but I tell my wife all the time, "I wouldn't switch places with anyone." It's so, it's fun to work on intellectually, to be able to tackle this problem. You know, when I was a kid, and every kid probably thinks about, "Oh, how do you tackle the problems of the world?" And I always used to wonder, "If you peel the onion, it all does boil down to education." And now we get letters, even back in 2011, I was getting letters from people all over the world. My wife and I just met a young woman from Afghanistan who, used — when the Taliban took over Kabul, she couldn't go to school. She used Khan Academy as her school. And she's a freshman at MIT. And so when we hear stories of, of people like her — I met, this was about five, six years ago I met a young man who was in prison for 15 or 16 years. And his mother gave him transcripts of Khan Academy while he was in prison. And when he got out, he was most excited, at age 32, of using Khan Academy. And then he took the SAT, and he did so well he was able to transfer to Stanford as a junior. And that's where I met him. I was giving a guest lecture at Stanford, and I said, "Any questions?" And this 32- or 33-year-old raises his hand, and he starts crying. And things like that, feels like you're living in a science fiction book.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You talk about the importance of personalized education. Why is it so important that it's personalized and, you say, really a one-on-one experience in many ways?
SAL KHAN:
If you go back about 2,300 years, you would see Aristotle tutoring Alexander the Great or who would be later called Alexander the Great. And for most of human history, that was the gold standard of education. You had a personal tutor or sometimes a team of tutors, but most people didn't get that. You had to be a prince. You had to be a member of nobility. And about 2-300 years ago, we had this very utopian idea: mass public education. But we had to compromise. We couldn't afford to give everyone a personal tutor, so we batched students together in groups of 25, 30, 35. We start moving them together. And that's the system we have today. And it's done hugely positive things. Literacy rates have gone through the roof. Things like algebra used to be considered esoteric. Now we expect everyone to learn it. But we also know that a lot of people fall behind. So what personalization allows you, in that class of 20 or 30, or if you're learning by yourself, is to get a little bit more of that attention, speed up, slow down, dig deep when you need it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You developed something called Khanmigo, the word clearly derived from the Spanish 'conmigo,' which means "with me." And it's like a personalized AI tutor. Where did you get the idea for this, and how does it enhance what you are trying to do overall with Khan Academy?
SAL KHAN:
This was almost exactly three years ago. I got an email from Sam Altman and Greg Brockman at OpenAI. And this was, just as a reminder for folks, this was six months before ChatGPT came out. I remember that first night that we had access, and I prompted, "You are a Socratic tutor." I — we don't do this now, but at that time I said, "You are the Robin Williams character from 'Dead Poets Society,' and tutor me." And it did it. Not perfectly, but it did it. And that was in those early days. And so that's when our imaginations started to say, "Hey, why couldn't we use this not by itself but in conjunction with teacher tools, in conjunction with videos, in conjunction with the software exercises to get that much closer to what Alexander the Great had with Aristotle?"
KRISTEN WELKER:
In your book, 'Brave New Words,' which is about the future of AI in education, you talk about Khan Academy given early access by ChatGPT. You also write that you had initial fears about it, that this would somehow create a generation of cheaters. But then you ultimately came around and came to the conclusion that you now have, which is that there are real benefits. What do you say, though, to parents and to teachers who are concerned that AI will lead to more cheating?
SAL KHAN:
Yes, when we got access, the first thing I tried to do, I tried to get it to cheat. And it did cheat. And we're like, "Oh no, this is going to open up a Pandora's box." And it's not just cheating. It would hallucinate. It would make up facts. And they still can make up facts. And in my book, I have a chapter on cheating. And I start off the chapter before even getting into AI saying, "Well, what was the state of cheating before ChatGPT?"
KRISTEN WELKER:
It existed.
SAL KHAN:
It existed. And it existed, actually pretty, pretty blatantly in a lot of places and the opportunity here is we have something called Writing Coach on Khanmigo. And what that does is a teacher can assign through the AI, and the AI won't do it for the student but with the student. It'll act as an ethical writing coach. It'll go through brainstorming. They'll do outlining. It'll do a draft, give some feedback. And when the student submits the essay through the AI, now the teacher just doesn't get the final output like our teachers got when we were young. The teacher gets the whole process. It's like being able to talk to the tutor. "How long did this take, Sal? Did he work on it?" And the AI can actually notify the teacher, "Hey, this paragraph right here, we didn't work on it. It just showed up, and it looks a little different than Sal's other writing. Maybe you want to look into it." And that's the way that you can really police these things, but it's not just about policing it. It's also about supporting the students better.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You are a father of three. I have two children. And I know one of the concerns that I have about AI is that my kids will become reliant on AI for writing, for thinking about complex problems, for math. What do you say to parents like me who have that concern that AI will make it harder for their kids to do independent and tough thinking on their own?
SAL KHAN:
I think — AI is a technology. It's a tool. And I always try to point out to folks the tools themselves are neutral. They can be positive or negative. Fire, which is maybe the first tool that we learned to harness as a species, you can destroy, burn, but you can also keep warm, prepare food. Same thing with AI. It's going to amplify your intent. So, yes, if your children are using it to cheat, if your children are using it to cut corners, to kind of check out, that's not good. That's not a healthy thing. But if they're using it to go deeper into a conversation, to answer their questions, it's actually a really powerful skill. We're seeing that in schools. The kids that know how to ask questions, they're off to the races with AI. But a lot of kids, they haven't been able to build that muscle yet, and this is hopefully helping them build. And the teachers say, "Yes, those same students are often not going to raise their hand and ask a question. They're not articulating what they need and so this might be a good outlet for them." So you want your children or anyone's children to be really thoughtful about how to use these tools. Make sure that they're not using it to amplify their laziness, but they're using it to amplify their creativity, to amplify their, you know, they're brainstorming with it, they're digging deeper, they're accelerating their learning. And if they're doing things like that, it can be very positive.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I wonder what you think about the future of education. When you think about a classroom 10, 20 years from now, what does it look like in your mind?
SAL KHAN:
What I would like to see, and this is what we're building toward, is if we go into a classroom in 10 or 20 years, at first you'll say, "This is just a great classroom." The kids are talking to each other. The teacher is walking around, sitting next to a student, saying, "Hey, that was a great job. I really like how you did that." Kids look really engaged. It will look like an exceptional classroom today. But when you start paying closer attention, you'll realize that the teacher and the student have much more support to do that really engaging experience than they've ever had before. Maybe the teacher has some thing whispering into their ear saying, "Hey, you know, go talk to Kristen. She's really engaged today. She's really excited about today's topic. Go give her some encouragement. She could really value that. And why don't you go now talk to breakout group number five? They're having a little bit of a conflict. I think they need you." And then that night, that teacher is able to co-create with the AI an even more engaging lesson based on what the students have said or done. And the AI can say, "Hey, yesterday's lesson went well. The kids really enjoyed it. I talked to them about it. But a lot of them were still confused about the main idea of a paragraph. So why don't we re-teach that tomorrow in this way?" So the teacher always feels like they are really supported. And the students never feel stuck. And when they come to class, they don't feel like it's a class where they just have to sit still with their finger on their lip. That they can — it's play. They get to talk to each other, move around. Now, we can also imagine augmented reality and virtual reality. But I don't think that's actually the meat of it. I actually think it's unlocking the human-to-human connection by taking out a lot of the administrative planning and support tasks.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think that we are getting smarter as a country, as a world community?
SAL KHAN:
For someone who is engaged with their learning, who is curious, this is the most exciting time to be alive. For someone who's curious, there's no ceiling, especially now with artificial intelligence and everything else that's happening. You know, you're going to see 10-year-olds learn quantum physics. And they're going to be the people who push the frontiers. At the same time, we know that these same technologies can be used to make very addictive things. You know, social media, people are already — there are companies already building AI friends, AI girlfriends and boyfriends. You're going to have AI entertainment that is very, very immersive. And I'm excited about some of that. But if it gets too addictive, these games and this entertainment, then yeah, you could see this divide of the people who are using the tools to accelerate their own potential and the people who are kind of in, like, a opium haze of, of you know — I mean, you're already seeing that in places in East Asia. Unfortunately, a lot of young men are so addicted to video games that they're not even getting out, forming connections. So yeah, I worry about that. But whenever I think about that, I think about, "Well, maybe there are ways of using the same technology to put guardrails." You know, right now on a computer, every parent worries what their kid's doing. We worry about it at home. There are very blunt instruments where you can protect from certain sites. I hope AI can observe and be on the parents' and the teachers' side and say, "Hey, that article's not appropriate for you," or, "You played this video game for half an hour. Why don't you go do a little bit of Khan Academy?" Or even better, "Why don't you go run outside right now?" And if it can do that, if it can report to the parent like, "Hey, why don't you go walk over and get them to play outside? In fact, you should go for a walk too because you've been on your phone too long too."
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, a journey into outer space with an astronaut who became a senator.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Meet the Press has long welcomed guests from the worlds of arts and entertainment, but some, you could say, were truly out of this world. In 1963, just over a year after becoming the first American to orbit the earth, astronaut John Glenn joined 'Meet the Press' to explain why America was opening the door to the final frontier.
[START TAPE]
COL. JOHN GLENN:
All I can do is fall back on something like the Lewis and Clark expedition heading for the west coast. How did they know what they were going to run into? I know I can't even begin to pinpoint what we may run into or what may prove of most benefit, but I think man's participation in this guarantees one thing. If we can see things, perceive them, analyze them, relate them back to our experiences here, this is the main thing that man brings to the program. He can see things, new things that now are completely unforeseen or unknown. This to me is probably what's going to be the biggest advantage of having a man in the space program, are things that we don't even foresee right now.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
35 years later, Colonel Glenn was now Senator Glenn of Ohio, but his fascination with space never faded. After flying out to space again at the age of 77, he returned to this broadcast to reflect on his journey.
[START TAPE]
SEN. JOHN GLENN:
Looking out at the horizon up there and seeing the blackness of space out there and seeing the curvature of the Earth's surface – and I know we didn't get quite the same view as the astronauts did that went to the moon, Neil Armstrong and Buzz and the other people that went to the moon and back where they saw the earth as the, the 'big, blue marble' as they described it – but looking out from the level that we were at, which is about almost 350 statute miles high, which is a very high orbit for the usual manned space effort, it's just so beautiful up there, you can't help but look out and, you know, you get teary-eyed, almost, just looking out and appreciating the beauty of where we live here. And you can't help but wonder when you fly over places like the Mideast that we have so many man made problems in that area that have gone on for centuries, why we can't get together on this beautiful home that we call Earth and really solve some of these problems here.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just remarkable. When we come back, our conversation with Amanda Gorman on why poetry matters to who America is as a nation.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Amanda Gorman captured the world's attention when she became the youngest inaugural poet, delivering a powerful message at President Biden's inauguration in 2021 at the age of 22.
[BEGIN TAPE]
AMANDA GORMAN:
We will not march back to what was but move to what shall be, a country that is bruised but whole, benevolent but bold, fierce and free.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
In the four years since, Gorman has become an advocate, speaking out against racial inequality and the banning of books. She is out with a new book, "Girls On The Rise," where she speaks to young women about empowerment, inclusivity and facing their fears. I sat down with Amanda Gorman to discuss her journey and how poetry can speak to all Americans.
[BEGIN TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Amanda Gorman, Welcome to Meet the Press.
AMANDA GORMAN:
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It is an honor to have you here. What do you hope young girls, young boys, young people, take away from the message in this new book?
AMANDA GORMAN:
I'm so excited about this children's book because for me, it originated around this idea of having a children's book that underscores the importance of community and allyship. So often in children's books, we follow an individual character, which I love. I live for that. But I was kind of like, "What if we turned that on its head a little bit?" And the book is about the village, it's about the wave, it's about the movement. It's about what it means to be a young person in a generation that is going to and is currently changing the world, and that's what I hope is the heartbeat of the book.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Why was it important for you to celebrate young women and young girls in this moment?
AMANDA GORMAN:
I love that question. Because this book has been in the works for several years. It kind of came into being a few years ago when Dr. Christine Blasey Ford was testifying in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee. And I, like so many other people, was just watching that testimony unwrapped. And I think especially as a woman, I really connected with that sensation of being the person in the room speaking her truth and not being heard. And I wrote that poem that night. And then, as the years went on, I started thinking to myself, this could also be a message that I think particularly young girls and their allies need to hear now more than ever.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You have used your art and your poetry for activism. You've spoken out about racial inequality, climate change. You've spoken out about book banning, particularly after your poem that you delivered at the 2021 inauguration was banned —
AMANDA GORMAN:
Yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– In a Florida School. What was your reaction when you learned that your poem had been banned?
AMANDA GORMAN:
To be honest, it was a bit like a gut punch. It was – it felt surreal. I had understood that book bans have been happening, but I think this hit me so incredibly hard, because – not just that it was something I had written, which is besides the point, that it was a moment in history. That if a child at the school wanted to hear words that were spoken at a presidential inauguration for their country, it had kind of been softly restricted in that way. But I think, as I started to kind of open my eyes to the broader environment of what's happening now, there are so many book bans happening right now that are very terrifying, if you pay attention to what that means for children's right to read and learn, and what it means for teachers and libraries. There's been reports of over 10,000 book bans just in this school year alone. That's an over 200% increase from last school year. And so I would say, if anyone cares, beyond just my own work being banned, it's so important to be awake to what's happening on a local level.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When did you know you wanted to be a poet? Did you know? Or are you just, is it just a part of you? Is it something you've always known?
AMANDA GORMAN:
I think it's – it is a bit a part of me, almost like in my blood. I felt this kind of will of writing, even when I was like four or five, my mom would have to give me quarters for every morning I stayed in bed instead of getting up at like 6am and writing because that poor woman would have to get up with me and turn on the lights. And so even then, I was writing as if I was a commissioned poet. I didn't know that writing was a job at that point. I didn't know that it was something that I could do, let alone as a girl, let alone as a Black person. But as I grew and saw examples of that, I knew I would give my whole life to just have this as my craft.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Why do you think poetry is so critical to who we are as a nation?
AMANDA GORMAN:
Poetry has consistently been the language of a people. I think it's the reason why, when there's protest, you will hear metaphor. You will hear they buried us, but they didn't know we were seeds. The reason that there's a poem and not a 36 page essay at the bottom of the Statue of Liberty, when we are trying, as a people, to speak to our best shared common humanity, typically, poetry is the rhetoric that encapsulates that the best. I think there's something magical about it, that is humble, that is hopeful, but that's also wounded enough to remind us of the past that we've stepped from and the future we want to move to.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I'm usually interviewing politicians who don't want to say that they want to run for this office or that office or run for president one day. You have proudly and confidently said that you want to run for president –
AMANDA GORMAN:
Yes. Absolutely, yes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– in 2036 when you are able to do that, when did you first get that bug? When did you first think, "I want to be president of the United States one day?"
AMANDA GORMAN:
Oh, that's a good question. I think I was probably 11, sixth grade, very early. I have delusions of grandeur, as you would say. But at that age, I was just starting to become an activist, and I was getting interested in local issues, particularly, I had a friend whose mother was doing work around sex trafficking, and I was finding out about that, and I was just overwhelmed with the amount of policy that was not in place, and I started thinking to myself, "Someone has to do something about these issues." Then I kind of looked around and I said, "Why not me? Why not now? Why not here?" And so I think from a young age, it just felt like a responsibility and opportunity to step up.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And,Amanda, poets are a part of the history of this country, from Robert Frost to Maya Angelou, what do you hope your mark will be?
AMANDA GORMAN:
I hope my mark is being a wordsmith and a change maker who speaks in a language that allows our country to return to love, legacy and connection.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
To see our full "Meet the Moment" interviews go to meetthepress.com. That is all for today, thank you for watching. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.