logo
Using an election as plebiscite referendum is just not going to fly

Using an election as plebiscite referendum is just not going to fly

The National3 days ago

Most of us, I bet. But fun as it is to see those who only a few short years ago were proclaiming themselves to be 'All4Unity' – and now failing to find much unity among themselves – Galloway endorsing the right of voters in Scotland to choose to be independent is no longer the political showstopper that it could have been a couple of decades ago.
Far more predictable was Labour minister Douglas Alexander popping up on BBC Scotland at the weekend and refusing – despite being asked three times – to say how Scotland can voluntarily leave the Union should they wish.
READ MORE: Palestine Action activist rejects Home Secretary's Glasgow protest claim
It's the question which is guaranteed to leave any Unionist spokesperson spinning towards the ground belching puffs of acrid smoke in their wake, because there's really no good answer they can give. Which of course is all the more reason to keep asking it.
The fact is that most Scots, pro-independence or not, accept without question our right to self-determination. Implying or even stating that no such right exists, or dodging the question as Alexander tried to do, only serves to get right up people's noses.
While it's not a strategy for independence, it's nevertheless a useful way to put some people on the spot and get the people of Scotland in general talking about the rights and wrongs of the matter.
And let's face it, the more people who accept our right to choose independence and who start to consider that the question deserves to be put again, the more likely it is to happen.
Short of a 'black swan' event which turns people so decisively against the Union that any vote becomes redundant, independence will probably only happen through a standalone referendum to begin a legal process of becoming independent. And even in the unlikely event of that black swan flying overhead, you'd still likely want a referendum to ratify and legitimise the outcome.
So, having said that, let's recognise that using an election as a plebiscite referendum is just not going to fly. Not now. Probably not ever.
I'm always puzzled how so many who argue that we absolutely must take this route can argue with 100% certainty that any UK government will say no to another referendum on independence, yet can still believe the same UK government would just roll over and say yes to actual independence in the face of a positive election result.
The truth is this – in the unlikely event of being able to win 50% of the vote in a multi-party election, the best anyone in the UK Government will ever do is congratulate us on our result.
It will only have effect in their eyes if we fall short, when in a twist on that classic Edinburgh expression, it will be a case of 'you'll have had your referendum'. And independence then really will be off the agenda for another generation.
(Image: Supplied)
What should matter more to independence supporters than what Westminster thinks is what the Scottish people think. And by that, I mean what people in Scotland really think, rather than what we might wish they thought instead.
If anyone spends any time talking to voters in Scotland just now about what is important to them, they would find that even independence supporters are still overwhelmingly going to be voting first and foremost for a government, no matter what anyone else might want them to do.
In the present circumstances, if the SNP were to try to use the next Scottish Parliament election as a proxy referendum, then you can probably say hello to a thumping Unionist majority at Holyrood.
That's not because there's a thumping majority or anything like it out there for the Union, because there isn't. Rather, it'll be because most people – even independence supporters – will rightly conclude that there are lots of other pressing issues also needing decided.
By standing on a platform not of 'independence, nothing less' but instead 'independence and nothing else', Scotland's main pro-independence party would be showing that it was no longer capable of being both pro-independence and being a government at the same time.
And good luck getting Scotland to independence without having a pro-independence Scottish Government taking decisions in Scotland.
There are a couple of reasons why Alex Salmond embraced the idea of a pre-legislative referendum as part of his moves to professionalise the SNP that he led.
(Image: JASON REDMOND)
Firstly, it was to help decouple independence supporters from their (then) loyalty to the Labour Party. But also, it was to allow people who wanted SNP representation to vote for the party, knowing that if it came to it, independence could be only decided later on in a separate vote for that purpose.
While it was that first group who helped take Scotland so close in 2014, it was the second group of 'soft' SNP supporters who were instrumental in the 2011 SNP landslide which made that referendum possible at all.
It was a shrewd move from a man who knew exactly what he was doing when he did it.
And it was informed by the hard data that had come in from SNP canvassers all over the country, which had started to show that support for independence was not always the same as support for the SNP and vice versa.
So by all means let a thousand flowers bloom in our strategic thinking.
But let us always be realistic, grounded in reality and looking outwards to those we still need to persuade, rather than trying to set a political course based solely on what might make us feel good personally.

Orange background

Try Our AI Features

Explore what Daily8 AI can do for you:

Comments

No comments yet...

Related Articles

90 jobs at risk at Fife firm that supplies parts to Alexander Dennis
90 jobs at risk at Fife firm that supplies parts to Alexander Dennis

The Herald Scotland

time19 minutes ago

  • The Herald Scotland

90 jobs at risk at Fife firm that supplies parts to Alexander Dennis

The company said it was the result of plans announced by bus manufacturer ADL – one of Greenfold's major customers – to close its Scottish sites in order to consolidate its manufacturing business at a single site in Yorkshire. Greenfold specialises in metal fabrication, cable and wiring, kitting and assembly, with reportedly about half of its staff working on constructing the sides, interdecks and roofs of buses for ADL. Speaking to The Courier, Greenfold Systems managing director Craig Waterson described ADL as a 'sizeable customer', and said it was a 'difficult situation' for the company. 'What happens with ADL remains to be seen. We would, of course, like a clearer answer but we're not going to get one anytime soon,' he said. 'A communication has been issued to staff, essentially telling them that their jobs are at risk as a result of the ADL situation. 'We will give another update when we know more. We are weighing up life with and without ADL.' ADL director Paul Davies told a committee of MPs on Thursday that the closure of its Scottish sites was 'not a done deal', but that orders for up to 100 buses and changes to regulation would be needed before the end of the year. Read More Earlier this month, the company said it could lose as many as 400 jobs – about 22% of its workforce – if plans to close its Falkirk plant and cease operations at the nearby Larbert factory go ahead. Scottish Liberal Democrat economy spokesperson Jamie Greene MSP said: 'This will be an extremely difficult time for the workforce at Greenfold Systems, and my thoughts are with them today. 'The SNP's failure to support bus building and buying in Scotland is inflicting a chain reaction of misery for workers and local communities across the country. 'If the SNP government are serious about delivering for our economy, they should be sitting down with the firm to thrash out a solution and finally get behind Scottish manufacturing.' Secretary for Business and Employment Richard Lochhead said: 'I am very disappointed to learn that Greenfold Systems Ltd has entered into consultation with a view to making redundancies at its Dunfermline site. 'This will be a difficult time for the employees at risk of losing their jobs, their families and for the local area. Scottish Enterprise will engage with the company to better understand the reasons for this decision and whether it can offer any assistance. 'The people affected by this announcement are our immediate priority and the Scottish Government will do everything in its power to help those affected through our initiative for responding to potential redundancy situations, Partnership Action for Continuing Employment.'

Alexander Dennis bus firm pulls out of Scotland with manufacturing jobs at risk
Alexander Dennis bus firm pulls out of Scotland with manufacturing jobs at risk

Daily Record

time36 minutes ago

  • Daily Record

Alexander Dennis bus firm pulls out of Scotland with manufacturing jobs at risk

Workers at Greenfold Systems Ltd in Dunfermline were informed of potential redundancies as around half the workforce are employed to construct parts for the firm's buses. Up to 90 jobs are at risk at a Scots manufacturing firm after bus company Alexander Dennis revealed plans to pull out of Scotland. Workers at Greenfold Systems Ltd in Dunfermline were informed of potential redundancies as around half the workforce are employed to construct parts for the firm's buses. ‌ The building - one of three - is dedicated to the work on the buses, with other sites in Lochgelly and Chatham, England. ‌ Graeme Downie, Labour MP for Dunfermline and Dollar, said he has written to First Minister John Swinney about the threat of job losses. He told STV News: 'The management and staff at Greenfold Systems are doing their best in an incredibly difficult situation but the fact these 90 jobs in Dunfermline are at risk just shows the ripple effects of the SNP's economic incompetence and their failure to support Alexander Dennis and bus building in Scotland.' Plans under consultation at Alexander Dennis would close their Falkirk plant and cease production at the nearby Larbert factory, with 400 jobs at risk. Bosses at the bus firm this week said the closure of sites at Scotland is 'not a done deal'. The company told MSPs that orders for up to 100 buses and changes to regulation are needed before the end of the year. ‌ The jobs would instead be consolidated at a single site in Scarborough. In evidence to a Holyrood committee, president and managing director Paul Davies said: 'It's absolutely not a done deal, it is a consultation process." ‌ Davies told the committee the firm would need to see consistent orders to help stabilise the future of the business in Scotland. He said this would be around 70 to 100 buses by the end of the year and 300 to 400 for next year. ‌ Calls have been made for a furlough scheme to be put in place, with the Government being urged to step in and pay workers until building can begin. Deputy First Minister Kate Forbes pledged earlier this month to 'leave no stone unturned' to secure a future for the workers at risk. Scottish Liberal Democrat economy spokesperson Jamie Greene MSP said: 'This will be an extremely difficult time for the workforce at Greenfold Systems, and my thoughts are with them today. ‌ 'The SNP's failure to support bus building and buying in Scotland is inflicting a chain reaction of misery for workers and local communities across the country. 'If the SNP government are serious about delivering for our economy, they should be sitting down with the firm to thrash out a solution and finally get behind Scottish manufacturing.' Join the Daily Record WhatsApp community! Get the latest news sent straight to your messages by joining our WhatsApp community today. You'll receive daily updates on breaking news as well as the top headlines across Scotland. No one will be able to see who is signed up and no one can send messages except the Daily Record team. All you have to do is click here if you're on mobile, select 'Join Community' and you're in! If you're on a desktop, simply scan the QR code above with your phone and click 'Join Community'. We also treat our community members to special offers, promotions, and adverts from us and our partners. If you don't like our community, you can check out any time you like. To leave our community click on the name at the top of your screen and choose 'exit group'. If you're curious, you can read our Privacy Notice. ‌ Minister for Business and Employment Richard Lochhead said: 'I am very disappointed to learn that Greenfold Systems Ltd has entered into consultation with a view to making redundancies at its Dunfermline site. 'This will be a difficult time for the employees at risk of losing their jobs, their families and for the local area. Scottish Enterprise will engage with the company to better understand the reasons for this decision and whether it can offer any assistance. 'The people affected by this announcement are our immediate priority and the Scottish Government will do everything in its power to help those affected through our initiative for responding to potential redundancy situations, Partnership Action for Continuing Employment.'

‘You have to fight tooth and nail': PIP claimants tell of struggle to get awarded as Labour accused of making it harder
‘You have to fight tooth and nail': PIP claimants tell of struggle to get awarded as Labour accused of making it harder

The Independent

timean hour ago

  • The Independent

‘You have to fight tooth and nail': PIP claimants tell of struggle to get awarded as Labour accused of making it harder

Sarah has just found out that she will likely be able to keep her Personal Independence Payment (PIP) after months of worry. The 40-year-old mother-of-one works from home, which allows her to juggle life with being a new parent and her disabilities. Chronic fatigue syndrome in her joints means she regularly experiences brain fog and exhaustion, and needs help. And it's her PIP that makes this possible, helping her to afford a carer, stay in work and spend time with her baby. Claimed by 3.7 million people, the health-linked benefit at the heart of Labour's proposed welfare reforms is designed to help with extra costs incurred by living with an illness or disability. The government's concessions on plans to cut welfare spending now mean that Sarah won't be subject to stricter eligibility criteria when next assessed for the benefit. Instead, from November 2026, only new claimants look set to be subject to the tighter criteria, under Labour's bill going through Parliament. But Sarah says she is struggling to see this as a victory. 'If there's another Sarah who's born a few years later, and ended up in this situation, it's still just as appalling,' she says. 'It's encouraging some disabled people to throw other disabled people under the bus. And it's vicious, because it relies on some people being scared enough to say 'well, we'll take what we can get'.' And like so many others, Sarah did not find applying for PIP an easy process to begin with. 'It feels really deliberate' 'It feels like you're being tripped up constantly,' Sarah says. 'It feels really deliberate, how difficult it is. It feels extremely deliberate. Because there are so many ways it can be made more accessible to disabled people.' Halfway through her assessment for PIP, Sarah's infant daughter started to cry in the other room. This caused her to panic, and she shouted to her husband that the baby might need changing. Because of this 'the assessor said I was clearly able to respond to my daughter's needs and assess what she needed,' Sarah says. 'But I said to him I can't care for my daughter on my own, I rely on other people doing that for me. I need somebody with me while I'm with her.' None of this was included in his report, she claims. And it's not just Sarah. Ginny's husband Tim was diagnosed with myotonic muscular dystrophy in 2006, a progressive genetic condition that affects muscles and movement. The mother-of-two works part-time while also caring for her husband full-time. His PIP award means means Ginny is entitled to a £200 Carers Allowance, which she says is essential to support her family. 'Tim doesn't like to admit it, but people frequently can't understand what he says. Every day I'm asking him to repeat himself as his wife, and I know him well,' Ginny explains. 'He was asked to repeat himself at least five times during the assessment. But when it came to the report, it said the assessor had no problem understanding him.' Ginny says the assessor also wrote down that Tim was managing to work part-time for 25 hours as a library assistant. He was actually working just 25 hours a month, just over six hours a week, Ginny says. 'Do you have a dog?' At a PIP assessment, the assessor will decide if an applicant has limited ability to carry out daily living activities. They do this by asking applicants to carry out a range of activities, awarding them points based on how limited their ability is. According to one former assessor, opening questions might include: 'How are you doing today? How did you get here? Do you have a dog?' An applicant could be forgiven for thinking these questions are just small talk, their PIP assessor being friendly and trying to ease them into the process. But in most cases, the assessment has already begun, the former worker says. How they answer these questions could be the difference between a lifeline to pay for their health-related costs or nothing. The former assessor, who wished to remain anonymous, said this approach is standard for PIP assessors. It is permitted under the DWP 's PIP assessment guide, which recommends assessors carry out 'informal observations' that may 'show discrepancies'. 'As soon as you say to them, 'I'm here to do the assessment, is that OK?' and they say yes, it's started,' she explains. 'And then you'll comment, you'll look around the room for photographs of them on holiday, of children. You're looking for evidence that they're not telling the truth.' According to polling by disability charity Sense, over half (51 per cent) of disabled people with complex needs report feeling humiliated during benefits assessment. A further 45 per cent said the process made their symptoms worse. The charity's policy adviser, Evan John, said: 'I think sometimes when you hear some of the discussion around PIP, somebody might think that it was an easy benefit to claim, but that experience is really divorced from the experiences of disabled people.' 'We'd like to see a system that treats disabled people with dignity, that assess people fairly, but doesn't make them feel like criminals for trying to access the support they need.' 'You have to fight tooth and nail' Neither Sarah nor Tim were awarded any points at their PIP assessment. Instead, they asked for a mandatory consideration, but were turned down and faced a lengthy wait for an appeal at a tribunal. 'We went to mandatory consideration fully aware that they would just turn that down because that seems to be the standard with them,' Ginny says. 'But that was just a step to go to appeal.' Sarah was only given the lowest rate of PIP after tribunal, while Tim was awarded his in light of more medical evidence. Around 56 per cent of PIP assessments resulted in a reward between 2019 and 2024. But around two-thirds of decisions are overturned at the tribunal stage, independent of the DWP, by a panel of decision-makers including a judge. 'You have to fight tooth and nail,' Ginny says. 'All the government's talk about 'people just are getting this too easily' or 'supporting people who have the most severe conditions'. 'In my book, my husband has a severe condition and it just feels like they're redefining disability to suit themselves.' It remains to be seen whether the government's concessions over its welfare plans will be enough to appease wavering backbenchers with MPs set to vote on the measures on Tuesday. A DWP spokesperson said: 'The fact is that PIP assessment suppliers and healthcare professionals are involved in the process but are only one part of the evidence used – they have no role in the decision-making process, and are clearly instructed not to base their opinions solely on the situation seen at assessment. 'We're creating a sustainable welfare system that genuinely supports sick and disabled people while always protecting those who need it most, and at the heart of this is our review of the PIP assessment to ensure it is fit for the future. 'We will work with disabled people and a range of experts on this as we deliver our Plan for Change.'

DOWNLOAD THE APP

Get Started Now: Download the App

Ready to dive into a world of global content with local flavor? Download Daily8 app today from your preferred app store and start exploring.
app-storeplay-store