Review that led me to resign as archbishop was partly ‘wrong', says Welby
The report said Smyth 'could and should have been formally reported to the police in the UK, and to authorities in South Africa (church authorities and potentially the police) by church officers, including a diocesan bishop and Justin Welby in 2013'.
During an interview which took place at the Cambridge Union in May, Mr Welby denied having learned the full extent of Smyth's abuse until 2017.
'Makin is wrong in that,' Mr Welby said during the event.
'Not deliberately, but he didn't see a bit of evidence that subsequently came out after his report and after my resignation.
'The bit of evidence was his emails from Lambeth to Ely and from Ely letters to South Africa, where Smyth was living, and letters to the police in which the reporting was fully given to the police, and the police asked the church not to carry out its own investigations because it would interfere with theirs.
'Now I had checked, and I was told the police had been informed.'
Over five decades between the 1970s until his death, John Smyth is said to have subjected as many as 130 boys and young men in the UK and Africa to traumatic physical, sexual, psychological and spiritual attacks, permanently marking their lives.
Smyth died aged 75 in Cape Town in 2018 while under investigation by Hampshire Police, and was 'never brought to justice for the abuse', the Makin Review said.
Asked at the event why he did not report John Smyth in 2013 when he first heard of allegations made against him, Mr Welby said: 'First of all, I first knew of John Smyth's abuse in 2013 at the beginning of August, when one person in Cambridge disclosed to the diocesan safeguarding advisor that they had been abused.
'A few days later, I had a report through my chaplain who had been rung up from the Diocese of Ely, which Cambridge is in, saying … there was an allegation of abuse by one person.
'I didn't know the full details of the abuse until 2017 – that is clearly in the report …
'And it wasn't until about 2021, in a meeting with Keith Makin, that I discovered there were more than 100 people who had been physically abused.
'I disagree with the report on that … it's not truth.
'Secondly, I certainly didn't know about anything in Zimbabwe for the same period, and that emerged steadily as well.'
Mr Welby added that, in 2013, he only knew of one person alleging they had been abused by Smyth, and that he was in the midst of dealing with other prominent cases of sexual abuse within the Church.
Mr Welby said: 'I was dealing at the time with Peter Ball, the bishop of Gloucester, where we knew there were at least 30 victims, and he was going to prison, obviously, and one of those victims had committed suicide.
'That was among many cases that were coming out, and they were obviously getting my attention.
'I was focusing my attention on making sure it didn't happen again.
'I don't apologise for that.
'The worst of all possible things would have been to say, we're not going to change the system sufficiently to reduce the chances of such appalling events with such lifelong damage to survivors happening again.'
The former archbishop, however, acknowledged he was 'insufficiently persistent' in bringing Smyth to justice while he was still alive – which ultimately compelled him to step down from his role as archbishop of Canterbury.
Mr Welby also said he was seeing a psychotherapist with whom he has been discussing the time of his resignation, which he described as 'one of the loneliest moments I've ever had'.
Asked about what he would have done differently, Mr Welby replied: 'I have thought a great deal about that.
'One must be very careful about making it sound as though it was all about me. It's really not.
'There will be people here who've been abused, who are the victims of abuse, sexual abuse, or physical abuse, emotional abuse, and I've been very open that I'm one of them, so I'm aware of what it means.
'There were two reasons it was right to resign.
'One was, although I thought I had done at the time everything I should have done, I hadn't.
'It had been reported to the police, the first signs of the abuse … and it was reported to Cambridgeshire Police and then to Hampshire Police, where he (Smyth) lived at the time.
'But I was insufficiently persistent and curious to follow up and check and check and check that action was being taken.
'And I felt that that had re-traumatised the survivors.'
Mr Welby added: 'The other point was shame, because in my role, it wasn't only the Smyth case (in) the whole time I've been in post as archbishop for 12 years.
'There were more and more cases (that) emerged, very few from the present day, but going right back to the 60s and the 70s – 50, 60 years.
'And I'm sure we have not uncovered all of them, and I'm sure it goes further back than that.
'And there's one area the psychotherapist I have been seeing has helped me understand better, is: one develops an idealisation of an organisation, particularly the Church, and the sense of its failure made me feel that the only proper thing to do was to take responsibility as the current head of that organisation.
'It's one of the loneliest moments I've ever had, the reverberations of that I still feel.
'But I can persuade myself I could have done other things. I could have taken on the interviewers more strongly.'
The process to replace Mr Welby is under way.
It is expected there could be an announcement on a nomination for the 106th archbishop of Canterbury by autumn – a year after Mr Welby announced he was standing down.
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Leader Live
19 hours ago
- Leader Live
Former priest led movement with ‘extremely disturbing' services, court hears
Christopher Brain, 68, from Wilmslow, Cheshire, was leader of the the Nine O'Clock Service (NOS), part of the Church of England, in Sheffield between 1986 and 1995. Brain denies one count of rape and 36 counts of indecent assault between 1981 and 1995. The prosecution allege NOS became a cult where Brain abused his position to sexually assault a 'staggering number' of women followers, exerting control over their lives and ostracising them from friends and family. Inner London Crown Court has heard a 'homebase team' was set up to 'care for' Brain – referred to as 'the Lycra Lovelies' or 'the Lycra Nuns' – with witnesses reporting seeing the defendant surrounded by attractive women in lingerie at his home looking after his needs. Mark Stibbe was a curate of St Thomas's Church in Sheffield when NOS was holding services there. Giving evidence on Wednesday, he said there was 'concern' about the direction NOS was taking and discussion about Brain and what was going on at his home. He told the court: 'I remember one church administrator or finance officer at St Thomas's who was like an old school army man and he brought up the negative optics, potentially anyway, of scantily clad, lycra-wearing pretty young women as he put it coming to and from Chris Brain's house on a regular basis to perform 'domestic duties'.' The witness said the man got a 'roasting' for asking whether there was 'anything untoward' about it and that others at St Thomas's felt that if the church's vicar, Robert Warren, was not going to intervene then junior clergy had no business doing so. He said it did not appear to him that Reverend Warren was able to control Brain. He also recalled there was 'a lot of controversy' over the Greenbelt Christian arts festival 'into which NOS had poured many hours and many thousands of pounds'. Dr Stibbe moved to another church in 1993 but attended a NOS service once it had moved to a new location in Ponds Forge after a member of his congregation expressed concerns to him about it. Of his visit, he said: 'My view at the time was that it was extremely disturbing and that my friend who had said it was disturbing was correct. 'The reason I found it disturbing is that the things that had been reported from the Greenbelt Festival about girls gyrating in scantily clad costume in a worship context, that is what I was seeing in this context.' Asked if he thought the women were willing participants, he told jurors: 'This is the thing that concerns me. I couldn't tell. 'In a progressive culture… it seemed to me to be a graphic, vivid contradiction to have young women behaving in what looked like a controlled manner.' Dr Stibbe said he wrote to the then Bishop of Sheffield to ask about oversight of NOS. 'It seemed to me that it had drifted so far away from being a Christian ritual and Christian service and there were elements of it that deeply disturbed me and I felt it was not properly accountable,' he said. 'I do remember saying to him that I felt that if he did not step in and discern what was truly going on in the congregation that there would be disaster within one year.' Of the response, he said: 'Part of it was a reprimand or rebuke and the rebuke was that we did not conduct witch hunts in the diocese. So I really had my ecclesiastical wrists slapped.' He added that he was told then archdeacon Stephen Lowe was overseeing NOS and that 'that should be enough for me'. Earlier the court heard from Rev Warren who said allegations that emerged about Brain's abuse 'came as a total shock', although he admitted he had a sense of 'cult-like elements' emerging in NOS. Asked while giving evidence over a video link to explain what kinds of behaviour he saw, he said: 'Just a sort of controlling of people and a focus on Chris Brain almost as a sort of guru.' He added: 'I think it was a sense of deference to Chris Brain that if you asked people about the service they would always say, well what Chris thinks is or what Chris wants is. 'With the other services I wouldn't get that sort of response.' The reverend said if NOS had continued to hold services at St Thomas's he expects that behaviour would have become clearer and he would have done something about it. He told the court that NOS had 400 regular worshippers when it left St Thomas's and at one stage there was a mass confirmation service of 93 members of NOS – 'the largest group that we had ever confirmed in one church'. He agreed that NOS was exciting and innovative for the Church of England and that it could engage young people in ways the church was until then failing to do, incorporating 'rave' culture and music as part of worship. 'Some people who were at that service would come from 20 or 30 miles away because they found the service so inspiring,' he said. The witness also told jurors that NOS functioned independently financially from St Thomas's, and that NOS contributed to payments to Brain as a 'lay leader' and then as a priest once he was ordained. Brain's personal tutor during his ordination training also gave evidence, telling jurors how she initially thought he was arrogant, how he was often absent and failed to consistently meet deadlines. Marilyn Parry said she raised issues with senior tutors and the diocese but that they did not appear to share her view, adding: 'They felt he should be given some slack because he was running such an important ministry for the church.' 'Mr Brain was not having a normal curacy so he was being fast tracked through the process,' she said. 'I felt it was a mistake.' The court heard it would normally take three to four years for someone to be ordained from the time they begin training at college but that Brain was ordained in one. The witness also said she had difficulty getting in touch with him and would often find 'young women' answering his phone, telling of a particular conversation that 'worried' her when a young woman said Brain could not take her call because he was being massaged by another member of the team. Former members of NOS also gave evidence, telling the court how Brain led a 'luxurious' lifestyle with a 'lavish' car, mobile phone and 'the best' clothes. They also said there was an 'expectation' that followers should try to contribute 10% of their income to NOS. The trial continues on Thursday.
Glasgow Times
19 hours ago
- Glasgow Times
Former priest led movement with ‘extremely disturbing' services, court hears
Christopher Brain, 68, from Wilmslow, Cheshire, was leader of the the Nine O'Clock Service (NOS), part of the Church of England, in Sheffield between 1986 and 1995. Brain denies one count of rape and 36 counts of indecent assault between 1981 and 1995. The prosecution allege NOS became a cult where Brain abused his position to sexually assault a 'staggering number' of women followers, exerting control over their lives and ostracising them from friends and family. Brain is charged with one count of rape and 36 counts of indecent assault (Elizabeth Cook/PA) Inner London Crown Court has heard a 'homebase team' was set up to 'care for' Brain – referred to as 'the Lycra Lovelies' or 'the Lycra Nuns' – with witnesses reporting seeing the defendant surrounded by attractive women in lingerie at his home looking after his needs. Mark Stibbe was a curate of St Thomas's Church in Sheffield when NOS was holding services there. Giving evidence on Wednesday, he said there was 'concern' about the direction NOS was taking and discussion about Brain and what was going on at his home. He told the court: 'I remember one church administrator or finance officer at St Thomas's who was like an old school army man and he brought up the negative optics, potentially anyway, of scantily clad, lycra-wearing pretty young women as he put it coming to and from Chris Brain's house on a regular basis to perform 'domestic duties'.' The witness said the man got a 'roasting' for asking whether there was 'anything untoward' about it and that others at St Thomas's felt that if the church's vicar, Robert Warren, was not going to intervene then junior clergy had no business doing so. He said it did not appear to him that Reverend Warren was able to control Brain. He also recalled there was 'a lot of controversy' over the Greenbelt Christian arts festival 'into which NOS had poured many hours and many thousands of pounds'. Dr Stibbe moved to another church in 1993 but attended a NOS service once it had moved to a new location in Ponds Forge after a member of his congregation expressed concerns to him about it. Of his visit, he said: 'My view at the time was that it was extremely disturbing and that my friend who had said it was disturbing was correct. 'The reason I found it disturbing is that the things that had been reported from the Greenbelt Festival about girls gyrating in scantily clad costume in a worship context, that is what I was seeing in this context.' Asked if he thought the women were willing participants, he told jurors: 'This is the thing that concerns me. I couldn't tell. 'In a progressive culture… it seemed to me to be a graphic, vivid contradiction to have young women behaving in what looked like a controlled manner.' Dr Stibbe said he wrote to the then Bishop of Sheffield to ask about oversight of NOS. 'It seemed to me that it had drifted so far away from being a Christian ritual and Christian service and there were elements of it that deeply disturbed me and I felt it was not properly accountable,' he said. 'I do remember saying to him that I felt that if he did not step in and discern what was truly going on in the congregation that there would be disaster within one year.' Of the response, he said: 'Part of it was a reprimand or rebuke and the rebuke was that we did not conduct witch hunts in the diocese. So I really had my ecclesiastical wrists slapped.' He added that he was told then archdeacon Stephen Lowe was overseeing NOS and that 'that should be enough for me'. Earlier the court heard from Rev Warren who said allegations that emerged about Brain's abuse 'came as a total shock', although he admitted he had a sense of 'cult-like elements' emerging in NOS. Asked while giving evidence over a video link to explain what kinds of behaviour he saw, he said: 'Just a sort of controlling of people and a focus on Chris Brain almost as a sort of guru.' He added: 'I think it was a sense of deference to Chris Brain that if you asked people about the service they would always say, well what Chris thinks is or what Chris wants is. 'With the other services I wouldn't get that sort of response.' The reverend said if NOS had continued to hold services at St Thomas's he expects that behaviour would have become clearer and he would have done something about it. He told the court that NOS had 400 regular worshippers when it left St Thomas's and at one stage there was a mass confirmation service of 93 members of NOS – 'the largest group that we had ever confirmed in one church'. He agreed that NOS was exciting and innovative for the Church of England and that it could engage young people in ways the church was until then failing to do, incorporating 'rave' culture and music as part of worship. 'Some people who were at that service would come from 20 or 30 miles away because they found the service so inspiring,' he said. The witness also told jurors that NOS functioned independently financially from St Thomas's, and that NOS contributed to payments to Brain as a 'lay leader' and then as a priest once he was ordained. Brain's personal tutor during his ordination training also gave evidence, telling jurors how she initially thought he was arrogant, how he was often absent and failed to consistently meet deadlines. Marilyn Parry said she raised issues with senior tutors and the diocese but that they did not appear to share her view, adding: 'They felt he should be given some slack because he was running such an important ministry for the church.' 'Mr Brain was not having a normal curacy so he was being fast tracked through the process,' she said. 'I felt it was a mistake.' The court heard it would normally take three to four years for someone to be ordained from the time they begin training at college but that Brain was ordained in one. The witness also said she had difficulty getting in touch with him and would often find 'young women' answering his phone, telling of a particular conversation that 'worried' her when a young woman said Brain could not take her call because he was being massaged by another member of the team. Former members of NOS also gave evidence, telling the court how Brain led a 'luxurious' lifestyle with a 'lavish' car, mobile phone and 'the best' clothes. They also said there was an 'expectation' that followers should try to contribute 10% of their income to NOS. The trial continues on Thursday.
South Wales Guardian
20 hours ago
- South Wales Guardian
Former priest led movement with ‘extremely disturbing' services, court hears
Christopher Brain, 68, from Wilmslow, Cheshire, was leader of the the Nine O'Clock Service (NOS), part of the Church of England, in Sheffield between 1986 and 1995. Brain denies one count of rape and 36 counts of indecent assault between 1981 and 1995. The prosecution allege NOS became a cult where Brain abused his position to sexually assault a 'staggering number' of women followers, exerting control over their lives and ostracising them from friends and family. Inner London Crown Court has heard a 'homebase team' was set up to 'care for' Brain – referred to as 'the Lycra Lovelies' or 'the Lycra Nuns' – with witnesses reporting seeing the defendant surrounded by attractive women in lingerie at his home looking after his needs. Mark Stibbe was a curate of St Thomas's Church in Sheffield when NOS was holding services there. Giving evidence on Wednesday, he said there was 'concern' about the direction NOS was taking and discussion about Brain and what was going on at his home. He told the court: 'I remember one church administrator or finance officer at St Thomas's who was like an old school army man and he brought up the negative optics, potentially anyway, of scantily clad, lycra-wearing pretty young women as he put it coming to and from Chris Brain's house on a regular basis to perform 'domestic duties'.' The witness said the man got a 'roasting' for asking whether there was 'anything untoward' about it and that others at St Thomas's felt that if the church's vicar, Robert Warren, was not going to intervene then junior clergy had no business doing so. He said it did not appear to him that Reverend Warren was able to control Brain. He also recalled there was 'a lot of controversy' over the Greenbelt Christian arts festival 'into which NOS had poured many hours and many thousands of pounds'. Dr Stibbe moved to another church in 1993 but attended a NOS service once it had moved to a new location in Ponds Forge after a member of his congregation expressed concerns to him about it. Of his visit, he said: 'My view at the time was that it was extremely disturbing and that my friend who had said it was disturbing was correct. 'The reason I found it disturbing is that the things that had been reported from the Greenbelt Festival about girls gyrating in scantily clad costume in a worship context, that is what I was seeing in this context.' Asked if he thought the women were willing participants, he told jurors: 'This is the thing that concerns me. I couldn't tell. 'In a progressive culture… it seemed to me to be a graphic, vivid contradiction to have young women behaving in what looked like a controlled manner.' Dr Stibbe said he wrote to the then Bishop of Sheffield to ask about oversight of NOS. 'It seemed to me that it had drifted so far away from being a Christian ritual and Christian service and there were elements of it that deeply disturbed me and I felt it was not properly accountable,' he said. 'I do remember saying to him that I felt that if he did not step in and discern what was truly going on in the congregation that there would be disaster within one year.' Of the response, he said: 'Part of it was a reprimand or rebuke and the rebuke was that we did not conduct witch hunts in the diocese. So I really had my ecclesiastical wrists slapped.' He added that he was told then archdeacon Stephen Lowe was overseeing NOS and that 'that should be enough for me'. Earlier the court heard from Rev Warren who said allegations that emerged about Brain's abuse 'came as a total shock', although he admitted he had a sense of 'cult-like elements' emerging in NOS. Asked while giving evidence over a video link to explain what kinds of behaviour he saw, he said: 'Just a sort of controlling of people and a focus on Chris Brain almost as a sort of guru.' He added: 'I think it was a sense of deference to Chris Brain that if you asked people about the service they would always say, well what Chris thinks is or what Chris wants is. 'With the other services I wouldn't get that sort of response.' The reverend said if NOS had continued to hold services at St Thomas's he expects that behaviour would have become clearer and he would have done something about it. He told the court that NOS had 400 regular worshippers when it left St Thomas's and at one stage there was a mass confirmation service of 93 members of NOS – 'the largest group that we had ever confirmed in one church'. He agreed that NOS was exciting and innovative for the Church of England and that it could engage young people in ways the church was until then failing to do, incorporating 'rave' culture and music as part of worship. 'Some people who were at that service would come from 20 or 30 miles away because they found the service so inspiring,' he said. The witness also told jurors that NOS functioned independently financially from St Thomas's, and that NOS contributed to payments to Brain as a 'lay leader' and then as a priest once he was ordained. Brain's personal tutor during his ordination training also gave evidence, telling jurors how she initially thought he was arrogant, how he was often absent and failed to consistently meet deadlines. Marilyn Parry said she raised issues with senior tutors and the diocese but that they did not appear to share her view, adding: 'They felt he should be given some slack because he was running such an important ministry for the church.' 'Mr Brain was not having a normal curacy so he was being fast tracked through the process,' she said. 'I felt it was a mistake.' The court heard it would normally take three to four years for someone to be ordained from the time they begin training at college but that Brain was ordained in one. The witness also said she had difficulty getting in touch with him and would often find 'young women' answering his phone, telling of a particular conversation that 'worried' her when a young woman said Brain could not take her call because he was being massaged by another member of the team. Former members of NOS also gave evidence, telling the court how Brain led a 'luxurious' lifestyle with a 'lavish' car, mobile phone and 'the best' clothes. They also said there was an 'expectation' that followers should try to contribute 10% of their income to NOS. The trial continues on Thursday.
