Watch: 30 minutes with the 'Godfather of Human Rights' Ken Roth on genocide, Trump and standing up for democracy
Speaking on
30 with Guyon Espiner
, Ken Roth agreed Hamas committed "blatant war crimes" in its attack on Israel on October 7 last year, which included the abduction, rape and murder of civilians. But he said it was a "basic rule" that war crimes by one side do not justify war crimes by the other.
There was indisputable evidence Israel has committed war crimes in Gaza and may also be pursuing tactics that fit the international legal standard for genocide, Roth said.
"The acts are there - mass killing, destruction of life-sustaining conditions. And there are statements from senior officials that point clearly to intent," Roth said.
He cited comments immediately after the October 7 attack by Hamas from Israel's former Defence Minister Yoav Gallant, who
referred to Gazans
as "human animals". Israeli President Isaac Herzog also said "an entire nation" was responsible for the attack and the notion of "unaware, uninvolved civilians is not true," referring to the Palenstinean people. Herzog subsequently said his
words were taken out of context
during a case at the International Court of Justice.
The accusation of genocide is hotly contested. Israel says it is fighting a war of self-defense against Hamas after it killed 1200 people, mostly civilians. It says it adheres to international law and does its best to protect civilians. It blames Hamas for embedding itself in civilian areas.
But Roth believes a ruling may ultimately come from the International Court of Justice, especially if a forthcoming judgment on Myanmar sets a precedent.
"It's very similar to what Myanmar did with the Rohingya," he said. "Kill about 30,000 to send 730,000 fleeing. It's not just about mass death. It's about creating conditions where life becomes impossible."
Roth has been described as the 'Godfather of Human Rights', and is credited with vastly expanding the influence of the Human Rights Watch group during a 29-year tenure in charge of the organisation.
In the full interview with Guyon Espiner, Roth defended the group's 2021 report that accused Israel of enforcing a system of apartheid in the occupied West Bank.
"This was not a historical analogy," he said, implying it was a mistake to compare it with South Africa's former apartheid regime. "It was a legal analysis. We used the UN Convention against Apartheid and the Rome Statute, and laid out over 200 pages of evidence."
He said the Israeli government was unable to offer a factual rebuttal.
"They called us biased, antisemitic - the usual. But they didn't contest the facts."
Roth, who is Jewish and the son of a Holocaust refugee, said it was disturbing to be accused of antisemitism for criticising a government.
"There is a real rise in antisemitism around the world. But when the term is used to suppress legitimate criticism of Israel, it cheapens the concept, and that ultimately harms Jews everywhere."
Roth said Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has long opposed a two-state solution and is now pursuing a status quo that amounts to permanent subjugation of Palestinians, a situation human rights groups say is illegal.
"The only acceptable outcome is two states, living side by side. Anything else is apartheid, or worse," Roth said.
While the international legal process around charges of genocide may take years, Roth is convinced the current actions in Gaza will not be forgotten.
"This is not just about war," he said. "It's about the deliberate use of starvation, displacement and mass killing to achieve political goals. And the law is very clear - that's a crime."
Roth's criticism of Israel saw him initially denied a fellowship at Harvard University in 2023. The decision was widely seen as politically motivated, and was later reversed after public and academic backlash.
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