CR Patil at Idea Exchange: ‘The Nal Se Jal scheme is to provide water, not for some contractor to make money'
Harikishan Sharma: How would you assess the country's progress under the NDA government over the last 11 years?
Narendra Modi is the first Prime Minister who formed the government on the basis of development. Earlier, elections used to be held on the lines of caste and region. As the chief minister of Gujarat, his Gujarat Model had impressed many and people wanted the same kind of development in their states. The government policies have been directed towards giving benefits to people from those sectors that were previously overlooked. For instance, women should be ensured safety and provided financial benefits. Over 11 crore toilets have been made keeping in mind women's safety and hygiene. Earlier, people had to wait for years for a gas connection but now every household has gas. A scheme (Pradhan Mantri Kisan Samman Nidhi) was made for farmers to give them Rs 2,000 thrice a year. Under the Ayushman Bharat Pradhan Mantri Jan Arogya Yojana, PM Modi is providing a health coverage of Rs 5 lakh, which becomes Rs 10 lakh in places where the state government is also offering Rs 5 lakh.
Harikishan Sharma: Several flagship programmes of the government come under your ministry, including Swachh Bharat and Jal Jeevan Mission (JJM). Could you discuss your work on JJM?
According to a World Health Organization Report (WHO), earlier when children defecated in the open, almost 60,000 of them died every year due to diarrhoea. The Swachh Bharat scheme began in 2014 and when the WHO came out with a report in 2019, it noted that because of the programme, in five years we prevented deaths of three lakh children. It has also helped prevent diseases in women. When the Nal Se Jal scheme was launched, only three crore households had tap water connections. Today, about 15.65 crore houses are getting tap water. Over nine crore women, who had to earlier go out to get water, no longer have to do that. Moreover, the quality of the water they got also wasn't good and caused several diseases. Nal Se Jal has, therefore, also saved medical costs that would have been incurred due to poor quality water. Approximately 25 lakh women, five in each village, have also been trained and given a kit to identify the quality of water that comes to their village.
Harikishan Sharma: There have been allegations of corruption related to JJM in some states. You recently stated that no one will be spared. What action is your ministry taking?
The job of providing water is that of the states but because that wasn't happening, the PM made this scheme. The implementation authority is the state, which makes the DPR (Detailed Project Report) and does the tenders. We have paid attention to the complaints that have come. We constituted 119 teams and conducted checks at various places. Around 92 per cent teams have submitted their report. We've already started looking into the faults based on the reports and have begun sharing them with the states to take corrective measures.
The scheme is to provide water, not for some contractor to make money through pipes. If there is a complaint under Nal Se Jal, the state government has to fix it with its own money. The payment will be cleared only after Nal Se Jal is implemented. Action has been taken against nearly 300 officers. Some are in jail, others have been suspended. People have also been served notices and there is an inquiry against them.
On funding for JJM | In this budget, we have been allotted Rs 67,000 crore. In her budget speech, the Finance Minister stated that by 2028 this scheme will be completed. If it has to be completed, then it has to be funded
Several contractors have been blacklisted and we have asked the state government to begin proceedings against them, start recovery and get the job done. We'll look into every complaint and no one will be spared. We have reached 15 crore houses and want to reach the remaining four crore by 2028.
Liz Mathew: Home Minister Amit Shah has stated that following the suspension of the Indus Waters
Treaty, water will be brought to Sri Ganganagar (Rajasthan) through a 350 km-long canal network. Can you tell us how long will this take?
We are working on the directions given to us. He has told me that several states, including Punjab, Haryana, Rajasthan and Delhi will definitely get water but Kutch may also receive water. Work is underway and we want to complete it soon.
Liz Mathew: What is causing the delay in appointing a new BJP state chief in Gujarat?
Four states are yet to get new chiefs. This includes Gujarat, Uttar Pradesh, Odisha and Karnataka. Things are happening step by step.
Agam Walia: The Jal Shakti ministry has asked the National Hydroelectric Power Corporation to make a DPR and PFR (Pre-Feasibility Report) for the Upper Siang Project in Arunachal Pradesh, but there is a lot of delay. Meanwhile, China's project at a slightly higher altitude is moving ahead. What is your view on this?
China can do whatever it wants, we are fully prepared. PM Modi is quite serious about it. Work will start.
Nikhil Ghanekar: On the Namami Gange project under your ministry, there have been differences between you and the Cabinet Secretary over the number of dams that should be constructed. During the Maha Kumbh a significant volume of water had to be released because there wasn't sufficient flow. There are also environmental concerns. Should we be constructing these dams?
Without the permission of the concerned environmental authority, no dam can be constructed. If a dam is built, it will only happen after getting permission. On Kumbh, never before in history have so many people converged along the banks of a single river. Yet, there were adequate provisions and purity of water was also maintained. The Central Pollution Control Board has noted that people can bathe in Ganga water. Nearly 211 STPs (Sewage Treatment Plants) have been built on the Ganga. Now we are working towards making the Ganga water drinkable. We had a meeting in this regard last week.
Vandita Mishra: You never put up posters or hold rallies while contesting elections. You have built a parallel system which you have started with a telephone directory. Could you tell us about that?
I fight elections based on data. I have the entire data for my region, whether it is doctors, chartered accountants, madaris, coolies, magicians or the number of girls under the age of 10 to understand if they have bank accounts in their names. I have proved that you can win elections without posters, rallies or meetings, if you work for five years and maintain relations with people and they are satisfied with the environment. I answer the phone myself, even after becoming a minister. Everyone in my region knows that if I do not take a call, I will call back. Nearly 35 ministers and MPs have come to my office to check the system. I won the Gujarat elections using technology.
On contesting elections without rallies and posters | I fight elections based on data. I have the entire data for my region…
I answer the phone myself… Nearly 35 ministers and MPs have come to my office to check the system
Modiji gives an example that I'd like to share. He says, if you have to fill air in the tube of a bicycle, you won't keep it open during a cyclone. You'll need a small pump. Likewise, if Modiji's popularity has to be converted into votes, party workers need to be connected to the people, they should believe that they will be taken care of. So we workers have functioned like pumps, filling Modiji's popularity into the ballot box.
Harikishan Sharma: The Congress has questioned the Election Commission's objectivity. The EC has given clarity but not everyone is convinced.
If anyone has any evidence, then the EC has asked them to debate with them. If they want to seek justice from the judicial system, they can approach the Supreme Court. These political talks are meant to spread confusion. They should go to the EC, Supreme Court but they should not say anything for the sake of opposing.
Jatin Anand: How do you see AAP as an electoral competitor in Gujarat?
During the entire election campaign, I never mentioned Kejriwal. I never felt the need. Look at the election result — they lost their deposits in 126 seats. The five people who won, they won on their own accord, not because of AAP.
During Gandhinagar's Municipal Corporation election, we won 41 seats. During the 2021 state elections I had said that we would win 182 seats out of 182, but we won 156. We lost 20 seats within a margin of 5,000 votes and in hindsight I think if we'd worked a little harder we could have easily won 176 seats.
Harikishan Sharma: Project Namami Gange is only till March next year. Are you planning to extend the scheme?
From the ministry's side, we are going to put forth a demand for this scheme to be continued. The Government and the PM will take the decision.
Amitabh Sinha: Like project Namami Gange, can we have cleaning missions for other rivers in India? Secondly, how is the face of the Yamuna going to be in the next two-four years?
Any river connected to Ganga is pious and must be cleaned. But the flow of Ganga, its length and the populated areas around it also lead to pollution, and it is a special situation because of which it needs special attention, which is why the work on Namami Gange started quickly.
With regard to Yamuna, there are three types of plans — we were looking at what can be done immediately, what can be done in a few days, and what can be done in the long term. In 45 days we covered 48 km, making arrangements to remove hyacinths from the water. In the beginning it was all green but now you see water there. Secondly, from our Ministry's side a DPR has been made in which planning has been done on what the Delhi government will do, what we will do, everything has been divided, and everyone has started working towards fulfilling their responsibilities. We want people to be able to take a bath in the Yamuna in one and a half years, and in another one and a half years the water should become drinkable.
Harikishan Sharma: The government had changed its guidelines in the Nal Se Jal scheme. Earlier, tender premiums were not allowed but that was removed. Through tenders, states started allowing payments above the estimated cost. Guidelines will now be made for the second phase, which will be till 2028. Will you bring back the guideline on tender premiums?
We have stopped the payment of tender premium. What was there, what has gone, is a different matter, but what is new has been completely stopped. After the process of tenders are complete, there should be no facility such as tender premium. Money is simply wasted in the process. In the new guidelines, there will be no tender premium.
On tender premium in the Nal Se Jal scheme | We have stopped the payment of tender premium. What was there, what has gone,
is a different matter…In the new guidelines, there will be no tender premium
P Vaidyanathan Iyer: The Ministry of Finance recently stated that it won't provide more funds for the Jal Jeevan Mission but for it to reach the entire country, more funds from the ministry will be required. Do you think the ministry will allocate more funds?
The Ministry of Finance had given us Rs 70,000 crore last year and then stayed it because work did not happen. In this budget, we have been allotted Rs 67,000 crore. In her budget speech, the Finance Minister stated that by 2028 this scheme will be completed. If it has to be completed, then it has to be funded. A news report was published (in The Indian Express on April 21) on the Expenditure Finance Committee (EFC), according to which the Finance Ministry has sanctioned only Rs 1.51 lakh crore to us (about 46 per cent lower than what was sought).
We have written a letter to the FM regarding this. We've been told to spend this much amount for now, but we've said that the total money will anyway be spent over a span of three years, as we'll go scheme wise. We also want to sign MOUs with states. For this, the amount we've asked for should be sanctioned. We're trying to convince them and are hopeful we'll succeed.
Shyamlal Yadav: A lot of questions were raised by the EFC on reaching Rs 9.10 lakh crore. Did you question the Finance Ministry on the EFC?
This (cost of schemes approved under JJM) is prior to 2024 and we have not sanctioned anything new. According to DPR, if we sanction the tender, if they have given approvals, we have to give them the payment. At some places, if more than Rs 47,000 (average cost of a tap water connection) has been given, how will that be recovered? If we have to give money to everyone, which the EFC wants, then this scheme will need to be completed. We have written a letter to the FM and also had a meeting at the Cabinet Secretariat.
P Vaidyanathan Iyer: Inspection reports indicate there has been mishandling of funds at the state level, which is the implementing agency. In the last four-five years, hasn't there been proper scrutiny of the programme from the Jal Shakti Ministry?
When we introduce a new project, we first try to implement it. The primary focus is on that. If the connection has gone to 15.65 crore houses and we get complaints from five lakh houses, then that's less compared to the number of people who have benefitted, but we don't even want that, which is why we are putting in so much effort.
Harikishan Sharma: You stated that action has been taken against many officers. Will there also be accountability at the political level?
The states will look after their own issues. If something comes to our attention, we will alert them and ask them to check.
Monojit Majumdar: India is among the largest groundwater extractors in the world. Given that groundwater ownership depends on land rights, large landowners and industries often have unequal access. Is the ministry planning any legal framework to address this?
We extract more than double the water extracted by both China and the US. We don't understand the importance of groundwater. The PM had given a direction that we worked on — Jal Sanchay Jan Bhagidari. We invited the Rajasthan Chief Minister, Bihar Deputy Chief Minister, Madhya Pradesh Chief Minister and Gujarat Chief Minister. We also asked migrants from different states to make contributions to their states. From Surat, merchants took responsibility to construct 1.60 lakh borewells in Rajasthan, 35,000 borewells in Madhya Pradesh and in Bihar four borewells in ten villages per district. More than 2.5 lakh structures have been built in Rajasthan. Madhya Pradesh is somewhere on the top. There are more than 11 designs and in eight months 32 lakh structures have been built. Nothing has been spent by our ministry. The initiative has been taken with the cooperation of the people. Out of 700 districts in the country, around 150 are in
the 'dark zone', where there is no water… We are trying to get everyone out of the 'dark zone'.
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